Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 10 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1400



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Re: Ihatei Motivations (shortish)
Players
Subject: Age of TML members.
Re: Age of TML members.
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
TravellerCon
Re: Vargr, in combat.
Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)
Re:Gamers ages (was re: In Defence of T4 (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance) Long)
Re: Ihatei Motivations (longish)
Re: In Defence of T4 (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance) Long
Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392
Re: Inverse lasers and reality
Re: T5, GT and SJG
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Re: T5, GT and SJG
Re: Traveller's Last Chance?
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1398
Re: TravellerCon
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Re: T5, GT and SJG

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:25:53 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

Sword Worlder wrote:
> 
> ---Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com> wrote:
> >
> > Wayne Ewart wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > Being from Edmonton, I'd rather go to Maine over "Cowtown" any day!
> >
> > Deadmonton, eh? Well, this is getting off topic.
> >
> > However, it's nice to know yet another Albertan on the list.
> 
> Ayuh.  Now that Deadmonton and Cowtown are out of the running, it's
> down to a choice between Toledo or Vacationland.  Gee, tough choice, eh?
> 

Not so fast.  There are at least two TMLers who live in Baton Rouge,
LA.  How 'bout coming down to the Gulf South during the summer? ;-)

> ==
> ------------------------><>------------------------
> IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4 ?tg ge- 3i pi ta+ he+
> http://come.to/traveller
> 
> Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
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- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:30:14 CET
From: "Patrik Holmstrm" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ihatei Motivations (shortish)

Given that 25% of aslan babies are male, how many second 
sons would there be? I don't hava any material on the Aslan
(Alians 1 havn't reached my game shop yet) so I don't know
their family structure, number of children, etc.

This would be important to know if we are to determine how 
many second sons aslan sociaty needs to "get rid off" and the 
cost to equip them. 

Patrik Holmstrm <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
There are things even the light is afraid of.....
                        Terry Pratchett

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:12:52 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Players

The recent talk about FtF playing had me thinking. I know someone on the
list was putting together a list of active Trav games. I also know it's
concidered a bit rude to seek games/players throught the list. 

That said, I've been working on an updated webpage since switching ISPs.
I was wondering if there is any interested in adding a page, say
something like a "looking for..." where I could post the name and
general location of people looking for a game. The ideas a bit nebulous
right now but I was wondering if there was enough interest to work on
it? Maybe it could be linked to the list of active games (if someone
could get the address to...)

- -- 
Mike Peters
travelleri@home.com
"In this same line why do the Brits (no insult intended) have BITS?
Where
is the NATS (North American Traveller's Society)? After all it IS "Yanks
in Space" ;^> why aren't we yanks doing more to promote it?"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:32:48 CET
From: "Patrik Holmstrm" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: Subject: Age of TML members.

Stuart Ferris said:
>Out of interest, how many people on this mailing list are below 25 
>years of age?

Well I'm 20 and been playing Traveller since the reliease of TNE in
Sweden (I was 15-16 at the time). I was probably born a gearhead and 
love the setting. It was really FFS that made me go out and buy the 
books.

I don't play Traveller much now as my RP-group is spread all around the 
country due to studies, military service and so on..

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:35:29 EST
From: "Rick Elrod" <rickelrod@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Age of TML members.

Stuart Ferris said:

>Out of interest, how many people on this mailing list are below 25 
>years of age?

I'll be 36 in March.

I wish I was under 25, the number of years I've played Traveller under 
the age of 25 is exceeded by the number of years I've played Traveller 
25 or over.  But I can say now that I've played the game over half my 
life  :)  having started at age 17.

In response to the "role playing in high school" question.  My school 
only had a policy concerning "live action" roleplaying.  They did NOT 
like the Assassin game we used to run, but they didn't mind us playing 
D&D or Traveller.



Rick



Rick Elrod

e-mail:  rickelrod@hotmail.com
ICQ:  6781967 (RickFL)
AOL SN:  RW1701D


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:41:23 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

>Not so fast.  There are at least two TMLers who live in Baton Rouge,
>LA.  How 'bout coming down to the Gulf South during the summer? ;-)
>

I have to vote for this one.
  BR is much closer to Houston than those legendary Canadian places.
I still wonder if Canada really exists or if it is a fairy tale?

TV

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:49:12 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: TravellerCon

I'd like to recommend my own convention, Winter War, as being fairly
close to Bloomington-Normal, IL, and having hopefully five separate 
Traveller games this year.  In addition, we have a long history of 
Traveller at our con - as "Shadows" originated as the Traveller 
tournament at our 1980 convention...

http://www.prairienet.org/winterwar/


DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:20:19 EST
From: "Rick Elrod" <rickelrod@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Vargr, in combat.

"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net> wrote:


>BTW, and I'm NOT going to get involved in Vargr combat tactics, but
>where did the idea that canines howl to announce the intention of
>combat come from?  I've never heard that animals in the canine
>family, dog, wolf, coyote, jackal howl *before* attacking, and they
>never have in attacks I've seen.  If it was a dominance or defense
>attack, there was barking, whimpering and growling, yes, but not
>full-throated howling.  If the attack was predatory it began silently
>with barks, growls and yips taking place *during*, but not before.
>
>So, why *do* canines howl?  I suggest it is as a form of
>communication announcing and marking their territory, and announcing
>their location and identity to the rest of their pack.
>
>Do Vargr howl?  It wouldn't surprise me if they did, but not in the
>way, or for the reasons, Clif suggests.

Remember how in World War II, the Germans designed their fighters to 
emit some sort of "whine" that had a very demoralizing effect on the 
victims of their attacks?  (This is also the reason behind the whine you 
hear from Imperial TIE fighters in Star Wars).  When humans are alone at 
night and hear the howl of wolves in the distance, it tends to strike 
fear and apprehension.

Perhaps the Vargr know this of humans and howl accordingly to demoralize 
humans when they attack.

Just a thought.





Rick Elrod
rickelrod@hotmail.com


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:10:30 EST
From: "Rick Elrod" <rickelrod@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)

Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote:

>The bits and sparks of name-calling on the list has brought something
>actually on-topic to mind.
>
>IYTU, what is the worst thing you can call someone? That is, worst 
>**without** using profanity?  If you wanted to get someone so mad that
>they forgot their snub pistol and came after your (Brawling-5) 
character
>bare-handed, what choice insults would make a good starting point?
>
>I'm sure most "worst things" will be very regional...calling someone
>a "Son of a Vargr" will mean much more on a planet plagued by
>Vargr sneak raids than it will on Terra. Some examples from the
>list might add some color (colorful language?) to the game...<G>
>
>Walt Smith

One motto we had when we played Traveller in high school was "never call 
a Vargr doggie".

There is an article in "The Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society, #9" 
(yes from way back in 1981) called "Epithets of the Fifth Frontier War" 
that is a hoot to read.  Allow me to exerpt:

Things to call the Zhodani:  "dirty, stinking zho", "psike".
Things to call the Vargr:  "snarl", "barkers", "doggie".
Things to call the Sword Worlders:  you only need omit the expected 
title "Sir" from any dealings with them (no offense to Sword Worlder).
Things to call the Imperials:  "deadhead" (lack of psionic training), 
"pinkie" (lack of fur), "outworlder".

Admittedly these are very mild by today's standards, but if you call a 
Vargr "doggie", he'll drop his plasma gun and go for the throat!



Rick Elrod

e-mail:  rickelrod@hotmail.com
ICQ:  6781967 (RickFL)
AOL SN:  RW1701D


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:42:02 -0500
From: Christopher Pratt <valen@gatecom.com>
Subject: Re:Gamers ages (was re: In Defence of T4 (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance) Long)

Stuart Ferris wrote:

> I wrote:-
>
> >> Why is everyone getting so excited about the
> >> release of T5? If anything everyone who
> >> bought T4 should be furious.
>
> Sword Worlder wrote:-
>
> >I know the leaning of this group, but I'll stick my neck out anyway
>
> No, no, your missing my point. I liked T4 too. I felt it had the right
> balance between CT and Mt. I also really love the Milieu 0 setting and my
> campaign is set in it. My point was that due to the incompetence of Imperium
> Games T4 is no more and we now have T5 being thrust upon us.
>
> >Now a few words about you - do you remember the basic set?  >Were you able
> to open that box, take out those little black books >and have some fun?  So
> what happened to you?  How come you >can't be happy with less than a full
> bore, pre-arranged, fleshed out, >infallible system?
>
> No offense intended but might your profession be school teacher? I have
> played Traveller since it was first brought out in the UK (i.e. over 15
> years). I have a large collection of CT, MT and T4 books and take great
> delight in their content. What I object to is spending hard earned money on
> a product that is not merchantable standard. Editorial problems and flawed
> rules are unforgiveable in a gaming system. Many times I have received a T4
> book from my mail order supplier only to be disappointed by the books poor
> content. Only Pocket Empires and Psionics Institutes stand out as the two
> highlights of the system.
>
> Traveller doesn't have to compete, in the RPG world it is almost unique. How
> many gaming systems excepting AD&D have lasted more than 20 years. It is
> RPGing in general that is in demise.
>
> Out of interest, how many people on this mailing list are below 25 years of
> age?
>

Me for one, I'm a 22 year old computer tech who has heard about traveller for
years, and I own a few T4 books, but I didn't really get intrested in traveller
until I tried Jovain Chronicles on my gaming group (which they didn't like or
couldn't get into), The general feel amoung my group is that being "trapped" (as
they put it) in a single star system is too limiting.  So I purchased several T4
books and ran a short campagin over the course of one summer untill half the
players had to return to college.

I was intresting for me, I could almost feel the sense of history while reading
the T4 books and I tried to instill that in my players (who are all younger than
me by anywhere from 1 to 5 years).
The thing I really liked about T4 was the character creation system.  Almost all
aspects of the character can be randomized.  I know a lot of people don't like
that, but I find it great for when you burned out of character ideas.

later
Christopher "the youngin" Pratt
valen@gatecom.com

> Stuart Ferris
> stuart.ferris@virgin.net
> http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:42:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Ihatei Motivations (longish)

<Dom>
 "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au> wrote:
>Damn, I was thinking about proposing to do Aslan and K'kree for SJ Games.
>Why didn't I?  Did anyone else put in a proposal?

I know of at least one that has gone in.

(Not me but someone else - sadly I've got three 101's on the go at the
moment).
</Dom>

I think what scared alot of people away was the deadline: One to two
months!  That's pretty damn tight in my book.  I know a lot of folks who
have published gaming books and supplements (PLUG: Buy Heavy Gear!  It
rocks! :-) and they say that's way too little time to do a decent job
unless you're a full-time freelancer. 

Charles.

- -----
"Can anything truly meaningful be said in just a single line? Maybe, maybe
not." 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 08:56:59
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: In Defence of T4 (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance) Long

At 11:14 PM 1/9/99 -0000, you wrote:

>> Why is everyone getting so excited about the
>> release of T5? If anything everyone who
>> bought T4 should be furious.

<snip>

>No, no, your missing my point. I liked T4 too. I felt it had the right
>balance between CT and Mt. I also really love the Milieu 0 setting and my
>campaign is set in it. My point was that due to the incompetence of Imperium
>Games T4 is no more and we now have T5 being thrust upon us.

One of my great lottery fantasies involves buying the rights to publish T5
and doing it right.  One of the things I would do (if I had the money) was
pay off Imperium's outstanding contracts to encourage good writers to
return to the fold.  Another thing I'd make sure to do would be to offer
some sort of rebate for owners of T4 materials when the T5 equivilant came
out.. say if you mail order FF3, you get 20% off if you include the title
page from FFS2.

We didn't win last night, so this won't happen this week..  :P
- --

Douglas E. Berry, dberry@hooked.net
Inquisitor Maximus
Canon Inquistion,
Reformed Canon Church of Sylea.
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:05:02
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)

At 08:48 PM 1/9/99 -0500, you wrote:

>IYTU, what is the worst thing you can call someone? That is, worst 
>**without** using profanity?

You.. you COWBOYS FAN!!! 

sorry, that's the worst thing I can call someone in real-life :P

In Lunion, calling someone "Sanvinur" (SW for "true friend") is a real
insult, as it implies much the same thing as "fellow traveller" did in the
American 50s.. you're a traitor to our way of life.  Depending on the level
of anti-SW feelings on a planet, just suggesting that peace is possible
might get you labeled a sanvinur.

"Mind-raper" or "rapist" is common derogatory slang for anyone suspected of
being psionic.

While not the worst, saying "ah, he must be from Lunion" is code for this
person is dull, anal-rententive, and has no sense of humor.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:25:18
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

At 11:04 PM 1/9/99 -0800, you wrote:

>"Come to Maine, spend money, go home."
>(The motto of Vacationland)

"Welcome to California, now go home"

"Why do they call it tourist season if we can't shoot at them?"
- --

Doug Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:25:49
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

At 09:27 AM 1/10/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Well, I'll probably be in both Vancouver and Calgary this summer.

Vancouver I can do.
- --

Doug Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:22:47
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392

At 06:28 PM 1/9/99 -0500, you wrote:

>Okay, to ObTrav the discussion: What is the proper word for Imperial
>citizens? Is it 'imperials'? I use that one to refer to the navy, the
>marines, and the direct _Imperial_ types. Is there a generic word for the
>dirthuggers of the Imperium? You know, the people who are citizens of
>specific planets, but not specifically involved in Imperial affairs? Is such
>a distinction needed?

I prefer to have the vast majority of folk identify with their homeworld.
Much like a medieval Frenchman wouldn't think of himself as French, but as
a Parisian.
- --

Doug Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:56:29 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Inverse lasers and reality

"Todd A. Zircher" <zirto@bdol10.indepth.com> writes:
>Actually, I was thinking of inducing a current in the leads
>to existing speakers on the target ship.  I figure that it
>would take a lot less power to vibrate some speakers than
>to rattle a whole ship.

Whatever you used would induce a current in _all_ conductors, not just
speakers. Which would pretty  well knock out the electronics and jam the
sensors, so if it could be shielded against then designers would shield,
which means that it wouldn't work on most ships.

Now, if such a weapons can exist it would make a dandy pirate weapon,
because the pirates could 'stun' a ship by disrupting its electronics, and
then capture it while it is dead in space. (This is one reason I would
assume all ships would shield against induced currents. Another is that
passing near a gass giant will induce some pretty large voltages, which a
sensible designer would shield against too.)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:01:40 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: T5, GT and SJG

On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 AveNelso@aol.com wrote:

 
>Actually,  I wouldn't recommend GT unless you really want to play using 
>the GURPS system.   If you've played Trav long enough you won't find much
>new in the first half of the book,  if you don't play GURPS then you
>don't need the second half.
 
  It's true the GT core book doesn't contain much new stuff, but I'm a
total junkie for well-made RPG books, and this is one. I don't regret
buying GT for a second.
  
> Despite my optimistic/wishful thinking SJG post,  I am zealously in favor of
> a real Traveller version being out there.  To me, without a Traveller-style
> randomized character generation system it just ain't Traveller. (THis may be
> why I never really got into TNE).

  It's interesting, how much peoples' tastes in game mechanics differ. I
would personally never referee or play a game, that didn't allow the
players more or less total control over the generation of their
characters. (This is why I always felt the T4 character gen. system was a
70's backdrop, that had no place in a game published in the ninties.)

  I'd be interested to know if this preference for CT-style random
character generation is prevelant on the TML. Are there any others like
me, who prefer a GURPS / WoD style point based generation? Please
enlighten me.

> I think that sourcebooks like BtC and StarMercs (hope, hope, drool, drool)
> may be just as useful for real Traveller and that's why I don't dread SJG.
> But,  we need real Traveller! That's what I want to play!

  BtC is certainly useful for anyone running a Marches campaingn. (At
least I haven't seen capsule writeups of every single world in the sector
in any other source.) StarMercs looks promising, and if the Far Trader
supplement delivers what it promises (see SJG web page for a description)
it might just be the best thing done for Traveller in years.

  I await T5 with interest, and will probably buy it when it comes out.
Meanwhile, i'm going to continue buying every GT book I can get my sticky
fingers on. (Being a junkie is not friendly for one's budget.)

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:07:37 -0500
From: Christopher Pratt <valen@gatecom.com>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

Erwin Fritz wrote:

> Sword Worlder wrote:
> >
> > But summer is the best time to visit Vacationland, Maine!  I have the
> > perfect spot, too.  It's free, it's scenic, it has great dirt bike
> > riding trails and big barbeque pits.  Woo hoo, Traveller Reunion
> > coming like a fast attack ship!  =:-o
>
> Now, wait just a minute! Calgary, Alberta has a spot that's free,
> scenic, and has great dirt bike trails and BBQ pits too. Although I
> don't see myself dirt-biking while playing Traveller. Besides, there are
> two of us on the TML in Calgary, so that's two votes to your one!
>
> --
> Erwin Fritz
> UNIX/NT/LAN/DBA Guy
> Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
> http://www.glja.com

  My vote is for the metro detroit area, nothing is free here and we can use
burned out cars as BBQ pits :)

later
Christopher "At least then I wouldn't have to drive" Pratt
valen@gatecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:11:42 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5, GT and SJG

In a message dated 1/10/99 4:44:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, AveNelso@aol.com
writes:

<< I've been thinking this over and finally thought that maybe that could work
 out alright.   If SJG issued both GURP Trav and T5 as separate lines but
 included a chapter with GURPS stats at the end of T5 products and T5 stats at
 the end of GURPS Trav products, we would have a certain economy of out-put
and
 close compatability between the simultaneous versions (wouldn't work for
books
 that were mostly stats of course, along lines of Fighting Ships or 101
 vehicles).   Sounds like it might be a real good idea.  
  >>

I don't think that Steve will do it ( :-( ) for one reason. I think that there
will be fratricide between the lines. They will compete with each other and
hurt each other's sales. Thus SJ will be paying to print their own
competition...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:13:44 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller's Last Chance?

In a message dated 1/10/99 4:49:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:

<< "Left wing" here means liberal, I suspect. >>          Correct...


I've played RPGs and boardgames
 with Trotskyists.  I saw a Stalinist in my local games store yesterday! 
 They consider military history a legitimate topic of study - ie they
 study it.  So apparently did Marx, Engels and Trotsky!   >>
Interesting!...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:15:13 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1398

In a message dated 1/10/99 4:49:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cjbrain@bigpond.com writes:

<< I believe she later tried to bring a charge of sexual harrasment. >>

It's nice to know that Americans don't have a monopoly on a------s....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:22:31 EST
From: JLAROSEE@aol.com
Subject: Re: TravellerCon

Hi-
   So how about TravellerCon in Normal, Illinois, center of the universe?
J. LaRosee
(Constant lurker, occasional poster)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:29:54 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

Sword Worlder wrote:

> ---steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:
> > I've been in Boston for almost 4 years and haven't been North of
> > Cambridge.
>
> "Come to Maine, spend money, go home."
> (The motto of Vacationland)

Why?  There is nothing I need or want there.
Actually, there isn't much beyond my corner that I want or need since
I have an Irish pub downstairs.  ;-)

- --
Bloo
Resounding Technology
Creators of RogerWilco
http://www.resounding.com/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:25:49 -0500
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: T5, GT and SJG

At 08:01 PM 1/10/99 +0200, you wrote:
>On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 AveNelso@aol.com wrote:
<<SNIP>>
>  It's interesting, how much peoples' tastes in game mechanics differ. I
>would personally never referee or play a game, that didn't allow the
>players more or less total control over the generation of their
>characters. (This is why I always felt the T4 character gen. system was a
>70's backdrop, that had no place in a game published in the ninties.)
>
>  I'd be interested to know if this preference for CT-style random
>character generation is prevelant on the TML. Are there any others like
>me, who prefer a GURPS / WoD style point based generation? Please
>enlighten me.

Personally, I don't like point based systems.  Perhaps I am a holdover from
"the good ol' days", but my major gripe with point based systems is two
fold:  First, when you boil things down, all characters are equal.  True,
some have penalties, but when you total everything up, the points are the
same.  This leads into the second reason which is that soon characters
becom maximized for the role they are to be used in and the more
experienced player will usually have a more powerful or useful character
than the less experienced player will.

For me, the best system was MT, where you had the randomness of the die
roll, but also had the ability to modify the roll with the brownie points.

Just my opinion, YMMV.

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net
Morrow Project Campaign http://www.sol-3.net
WT-L Support Pages http://www.sol-3.net/wt-l

Give me a lever long enough and a prop strong enough. I can
single-handedly move the world.
- --- Archimedes ---

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1400
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 10 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1401



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: In Defence of T4 (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance) Long
Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?
Re: Traveller's Last Chance?
Starship Component Densities
Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?
Re: T5, GT and SJG
Re: T5, GT and SJG
Re: TravellerCon
Re: Surveillance
Re: Surveillance
Re: real-world railguns
Re: real-world railguns
Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.
Re: Thermal Imaging and IR
Re: Bagpipes in todays modern army
Re: escape velocity
Re: Bagpipes in todays modern army
Equivalences HG and FFS2
Re: Age of TML members.
BITS and NATS
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? ) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:28:54 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: In Defence of T4 (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance) Long

In a message dated 1/10/99 9:52:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, dberry@hooked.net
writes:

<< One of my great lottery fantasies involves buying the rights to publish T5
 and doing it right.  One of the things I would do (if I had the money) was
 pay off Imperium's outstanding contracts to encourage good writers to
 return to the fold.  Another thing I'd make sure to do would be to offer
 some sort of rebate for owners of T4 materials when the T5 equivilant came
 out.. say if you mail order FF3, you get 20% off if you include the title
 page from FFS2. >>

not to mention paying what's-his-name the Ridiculous amount of money he wants
for all of the seeker and DGP stuff...:-(

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:37:30 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?

MindShift Design wrote:

> > >How many people would like to see an 'official' licensed play by
> > mail/email
> > >version of Traveller ?
> >
> > Only if it doesn't cost anything to play.
> >
> > I see no reason to pay for something that is "official"  when there
> > are hundreds, if not thousands of PBeM games being run for nothing.
>
> Point understood. This is one of the long-running arguments in PBM/PBeM
> circles - why pay for games when you can get games for free. The answer
> always comes back to the same reason why you'd gladly take the local bus or
> purchase a new car with all the latest trimmings. It comes down to wants,
> needs, interest and features. There are a lot of good games out there (I
> play some myself) but quality of features, gameplay and continuous
> development tends to be more greater in commercially developed systems.
> Especially in computer-moderated games.
>
> > > but with an intuitive command system for performing actions and
> > >actual roleplaying ?
> >
> > Isn't that a contradiction in terms ?
> >
> > Why would I want a "command system" for "actual roleplaying" when I
> > could just use language ?
>
> The point is that whenever you play in a roleplaying game, you can strip the
> language down to some base elements. Disregarding the emotional,
> psychological and physical state of your character, when you're being
> attacked by 15 Vargr all carrying heavy weapons, for you to return fire you
> still have to do the following:
>
> 1) Choose your targets
> 2) Fire your weapon at your targets

I want a hell of a lot more options than that.

> So you could tell your GM 'I'm going to shoot at the lead Vargr'. At base
> essentials, you've using a more involved system for roleplaying that still
> relies on an underlying 'command system' - shoot weapon at target. You've
> nominated your target, you've nominated your action. You've passed
> parameters to the GM about what you want to do.

Assuming you know which one is the leader.  More realistically, its
Shoot the one that looks like he is leading, shoot the tallest one, the
closest one, the one with the meanest looking gun, shoot over their heads
and command them to put their guns down, hornswoggle them by pretending
to be their superiors, telling them to look out for the Aslan Ihatei behind
them, throw a nice juciy steak and run, etc, etc.

> With computer moderation of any PBM/PBeM game you have to create a simple
> interface for you to operate in the real world. Even Baldur's Gate and
> Ultima Online rely on this. But our system allows you to perform most of the
> actions that you would in a normal roleplaying by using an easy to
> understand command system. You're still using language, just not as complex
> as a human GM would be used to. But it is an effective bridge between
> roleplaying and PBM.

I don't think I want to play at a level below human GM complexity.


> Besides how many human GMs could handle 1000 players playing 100s of
> different missions scenarios at the same time and have all the players
> interacting with each other in some way in a few minutes processing time ?

1000s interacting with 1000s?.  Why?

I'm getting more and more skeptical.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:33:34 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller's Last Chance?

In a message dated 1/9/99 10:51:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
redroach@sprynet.com writes:

<< I am not full flaming, but I am off topic.  Teaching colleges are not that left wing.
 I had a full range of military history as I prepared to become a teacher. I
 even had an excellent course entitled "A Military History of the United
 States" >>

Lucky bastard..:-). What school did you go to?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:35:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Starship Component Densities

Hi all.  I don't have a copy of FF&S, so could some kind soul out there
give me some idea as to the weight per unit volume of various starship
components?  How heavy is a cubic meter of powerplant?  Of armor?  How
heavy is a stateroom, low berth, etc.?  For that matter, how dense is an
average ship or a well-armored ship?  I don't need all the specific
examples (though if you want to send them, I won't complain), just some
general notions about the density of these things.

Many thanks,
Charles.

- -----
"Can anything truly meaningful be said in just a single line? Maybe, maybe
not." 
Charles Collin \\ McGill Psychology \\ http://www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/cvl
Ph: (514) 398-6151 \\ FAX: (514) 398-4896 \\  charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:42:01 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?

MindShift Design wrote:

> > > Whilst not strictly relating to Traveller, this was generated
> > from several
> > > player character positions and other gameworld data using our
> > EDGE System
> > > and one single command - dock the ship. Imagine what a
> > Traveller game could
> > > be like ....
> >
> > And how badly does it hang when a player doesn't respond?
>
> It doesn't. If a player doesn't submit a turn for play - they're ignored.
> The main game engine runs through a queue of player turns processing turns
> in a particular order. If in this situation a player didn't respond, they'd
> simply still be left in the same position they were in, whilst the rest of
> the world moved on. Just like in real life.

Leaving the player in the same position is precisely the problem.
If you've got a fire fight going on, in a real PBeM, there comes
a time when the GM will need to step in and control the character
of the player for the sake of gameplay so that everyone can move
forward.


> Out of character comments can be handle by including messages through the
> Out Of Game Message system to the GM. However the command system is designed
> to handle almost every situation that occurs. Of course having a human
> moderate the game would help, but would also slow down the processing or
> results depending on factors.

So who creates the goals and handles NPCs?  You need a human GM for that.

Your software sounds like it might make a great GM aid, but nothing I've
heard suggests to me that it will or can take over effectively.

Best of luck though.


- --
Bloo
Resounding Technology
Creators of RogerWilco
http://www.resounding.com/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:37:41 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5, GT and SJG

In a message dated 1/10/99 10:04:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, eptitu@utu.fi
writes:

<< 
   It's true the GT core book doesn't contain much new stuff, but I'm a
 total junkie for well-made RPG books, and this is one. I don't regret
 buying GT for a second. >>

The free trader deckplans are nice. I need to know how to convert hexes to
squares though...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:38:48 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5, GT and SJG

In a message dated 1/10/99 10:04:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, eptitu@utu.fi
writes:

<<   I'd be interested to know if this preference for CT-style random
 character generation is prevelant on the TML. Are there any others like
 me, who prefer a GURPS / WoD style point based generation? Please
 enlighten me.
 >>

I do for one reason. I got tired of power players tweaking and maxing out
their characters...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:43:10 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: TravellerCon

In a message dated 1/10/99 10:24:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, JLAROSEE@aol.com
writes:

<< Hi-
    So how about TravellerCon in Normal, Illinois, center of the universe?
 J. LaRosee
 (Constant lurker, occasional poster)
  >>

Interesting idea, but I propose Las Vegas for two reasons...1) it's a wild
place to vacation in (though the rooms are getting expensive...) and they
really have a LOT of convention experience. and 2) I live here....:-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 01:34:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Surveillance

In mail you write:

> Bruce Alan Macintosh writes:
>
>  Probably they can't see through solids very well; of known traveller
>> technologies, only radar could really do this, and it's not hard to make a 
>> wall opaque to radar.
>
> Well, sorta depends on what you want to see on the other side.  Neutrino
> sensors, densitometers, and (as far as I can tell) neural activity sensors 
> can
> see through walls, though none of them are horribly useful for surveillance
> purposes (hm...ok, I can detect people with fusion plants in their basements,
> grav tanks in their basements, and can detect people at short range with
> extremely limited information about who they are).

Actually, neutrino sensors can be used with a *lot* of computer help to
do scans of planets and smaller bodies. Densitometers will detect
secret rooms and compartments unless they are a *lot* broader focused
than I think they are. After all, a hidden room or compartment is one
hell of a density variation.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 01:39:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Surveillance

In mail you write:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>My brother is a commo tech in the US Army. His team in a wargame
>>had a satellite link - they ID'ed an "enemy" Major from a satellite-based
>>real time video, 
>
>>There's no telling how long it will be before such a wealth
>>of information becomes standard operating procedure for our military.

> Thanks, Walt.  I knew I wasn't talking out of my touchas on this one.
>
> Okay, so it is "not yet" but obviously "around the corner."

Just keep in mind that we are *already* up against some inherent limits
on this sort of thing. Between atmospheric turbulence and diffraction
limits on optics, last I heard was that a KH-11 or equivalent (1 meter
or so optics, 100 miles up) could identify a licence plate (by colors
and position), but not *read* one. 

So IDing indivuals will have to rely on something other than their
faces. But IDing *troops* should be easier. I don't see it being any
easier for the 3I. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 01:56:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: real-world railguns

In mail you write:

> From: Bruce Alan Macintosh <bmac@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu>
>
>>>>[railguns need lots of power]
>>>Couldn't we mount a thousand square meters of 24% efficient solar panels

Please note that at Earth's distance from the sun, you get something
like 1 kW per square meter of solar energy. At 24% effiency, that means
that you get 240 kW from that thousand square meters of panels. That
won't power much of a rail gun. 

The solar power stations that will produce *gigawatts* of power have
arrays *kilometers* on a side. 

And even then, it's quite possible that the arrays will be of
*mirrors*, focusing heat onto piping carrying some liquid (possibly
sodium or mercury) which will then be used to run a turbine. A heat
engine operating at those temps is likely to be *more* efficient than
solar cells. Also, a lot cheaper.

>     Why doesn't NASA or some other government body, say the dept. of Energy
> Scale up the Russian Topaz reactor to power the station?  For that matter
> you could put up ten of the existing model to power that orbital railgun.
>
>     The use of on orbit reactors like the Topaz would not only
> increase reliability of orbital power systems, but the reactor
> wouldn't be as susceptible to damage from botched docking maneuvers.

But the Topaz reactors didn't have much shielding. They were intended
for unmanned satellites. The also stick out like a sore thimb. Between
the leaking gamma rays, and the termal radiation, they are a big "shoot
me" sign.

Shielding is *heavy*. For a manned unit, one solution would be to put
the reactor at the end of a *long* boom, and just place shielding such
that the station is in the "shadow" of the shielding. 

Only trouble with shadow shielding is that you have to stay in the
shadow when approaching the station. It works a lot better for a power
plant intended for an interplanetary ship. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 02:06:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: real-world railguns

In mail you write:

>>More true. However, they also weight many tonnes and require
>>megawatts of power; we couldn't launch a railgun equipped
>>weapons platform into orbit, and even if we did, we couldn't power
> it.
>
> They don't have to be so massive.
>
> The ones I was talking about include one that is about 1.5m long and
> can be carried by a single technicican. (minus power supply, of
> course)
>
> Probably the most "operational" one is 6m long, designed to fit into a
> main battle tank turret.
> The power supply ( an MHD ) is mounted on  two seperate tracked
> vehicles, one for the MHD, the other a bank of capacitors.

Slight problem. The impact energy is equal to the power input *minus*
both losses in the gun *and* losses due to air resistance. 

There are also limits on the acceleration, mostly due to materials
strength. I've attended talks by folks who worked on them at Lawrence
Livermore labs. They had to quit using metal projectile because the
metal would *flow* under its own "weight". And then jam in the rails...
oops!

> Yes,  the whole system weighs several tonnes, but the turret itself is
> lighter than a normal MBT turret,  (no need for the heavy breech block
> of a conventional gun)and the power requirement could be provided by
> generators that have already been orbited.  Rail-guns need much less
> power than destructive lasers, which have also been seriously proposed
> as orbital weapons.

But a rail gun that is effective against something *other* than
thin-skinned aircraft or missiles is gonna take a *lot* of power. 

> The major problem (other than political ramifications) of having an
> operatinal rail-gun in orbit would be in keeping it supplied with ammo
> if it ever had to fire repeatedly in anger, and protecting it from
> opposing rail guns.

Ammo is actually fairly light. Since the damage depends on KE (.5MV^2)
velocity is more important than mass. 

a 1 gram BB at 10,000 m/s is better than a 10 gram bullet at 1000 m/s. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 02:16:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.

In mail you write:

> IMTU the Imperial Marines use bagpipes.  One of the proudest skill
> qualifications is Pipeman, and many in the Navy think that the only reason
> the Marines love the pipes is because it annoys the Navy.

I spent two years at a high school that had a pipe band. I enjoy the
pipes, but even I wasn't thrilled the day I got picked help re-arrange
some stuff backstage in the auditorium while the new members of the
pipe band practiced. A newbie on just a chanter can make fingernails on
a blackboard seem *nice*.

Also, pipe is "confined spaces" can get rather intense. I recall
listening to *one* piper in a fair sized tavern and it was almost
unbearably loud...

> When the marines are prepping for a landing, they will jam enemy
> communications with recorded pipe and drum corps music.  After a few dozen
> renditions of "Sylea the Brave"*, most opponents will give up trying to use
> their commo nets.

Ever hear *real* "war pipes"? With the *huge* drones, deliberately out
of tune with each other....

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 01:46:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thermal Imaging and IR

In mail you write:

>>>From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
>>>Subject: Thermal Imaging and IR
>>>with how things got brighter when I shined my flashlight with IR filter at
>>>something, but neither scope revealed HEAT, so I don't even know WHY you
>>>brought up IR when I mentioned thermal imaging.
>
>
> Steven Hudson wrote:
>>  Maybe I'm wrong here, but aren't both technologies detecting heat?
>>  Light-intensifiers, OTOH...
>
>     My understanding was that Thermal Imagery detected Thermal Radiation,
> while Infra-red detected variations in actual temperature... Of course I
> have no idea where I got this, so I don't have a way to check my "facts".

The only way to "detect temperature" without direct contact is to use
the IR radiation given off by the object. The peak frequency of such
radiation depends on temperature. The *amount* (brightness) depends on
both how hot something is and how *much* of it is at that temp. 

So both items work on IR. It's just that one merely picks up a "band"
of IR wavelengths, and reports the intensity as a gray scale. 

The other tries to scan *several*, narrower bands, and assigns colors
based on which bands have a signal, and brightness based on intensity
of the signal in the various bands. 

So they are *both* IR. And they both detect "thermal" radiation (which
is just another name for IR). 

But the "false color" displays require multi-spectral detectors and a
bit more processing.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 02:37:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Bagpipes in todays modern army

In mail you write:

> Derrick Jones wrote:
>
>>> I seem to remember, Clif, that certain highland regiments wore
>>> the kilt during WW2, and this demoralised the German forces,
>>> who thought they 'were fighting women'*,
>
> Steve Daniels wrote:
>
>>You mean the highland regiments didn't take their kilts off as
>>the auld highlanders used to?  I wonder what effect on German
>>morale that would have had?
>
> Scotsmen never removed their kilts when faced by the enemy. Not a good idea
> when faced by an enemy to have your kilt round your ankles.

Supposedly, it wasn't all that uncommon (in the old days) to discard
the kilt and charge in wearing just your shirt (which, btw, was
fastened between your legs so as to form a sort of "underwear"). 

But charing into battle *naked* wasn't at all unheard of. Berserkers
(Bare-sarker) tended to do that sort of thing. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 02:24:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: escape velocity

In mail you write:

>> > Could someone give a nice quick formula for determining escape velocity?
>> > 
>> 
>> >From the sci.space.* newsgroup faq list:
>> 
>> <http://www.lib.ox.ac.uk/internet/news/faq/archive/space.math.html>
>> 
>>  Vc   = sqrt(M * G / r)
>>  Vesc         = sqrt(2 * M * G / r) = sqrt(2) * Vc
>> 
>> where:
>> 
>> 3.986e14 m^3/s^2 (4e14)       = Gravitational constant times mass of Earth
>>                                 (M * G)
>> 6371 km (6400)                = Mean radius of Earth (r0)
>> 
>> You should be able to use these figures and plug in M and r as multiples of
>> Earth's mass and radius. Note that Vesc is different on the ground and in
>> orbit (r > r0).
>
> Cool.
>
> Anybody got a quickie formula for calculating surface gravity laying around 
> someplace?

Ok, gravity is *acceleration* rather than force. So the equation is:

A = GM/R^2.

A in meters/sec
GM see above
R in meters

So either plug in the figures from the above, or else use the Traveller
shortcut formulae:

Gs=K*D/8
Gs = surface gravity in gees
K  = density of planet (Earth = 1.0)
D  = planetary size from the UPP

M=K*(D/8)^3
M  = mass (Earth's mass = 1)
K  = density of planet (Earth = 1.0)
D  = planetary size from the UPP

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:56:54 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Bagpipes in todays modern army

Stuart Ferris wrote:

> Steve Daniels wrote:-
>
> >Then a lot of history books need to be fixed.
> >I've read countless reports of this being a common occurrence
> >among the Scottish highlanders, long ago.  This story relating to
> >the reasoning for not wearing anything under the kilt:  throw off
> >the kilt and your naked (maybe a shirt).  The reason for doing that
> >being that the old kilts, which were yards and yards of fabric
> >wrapped around the waist and shoulder, was an encumberance
> >and danger when fighting close in.  Especially if they got wet.
>
> I am not questioning your sources but, a number of things make the me
> question this:-
>
> 1) I think I would rather be encumbered than face an army of sword wielding
> Englishmen with my wedding tackle dangling ripe to be chopped off.

Well, certainly.  But I'm also reasonably certain that you wouldn't paint
yourself blue and rush headlong into a sword fight.  But when in Glasgow . . .

> The kilt
> is made of heavy plaid and would probably do a reasonably good job of
> weakening any blow.

Its not that tough.  Especially against edged weapons and spears.
Now if it were made of silk, certainly you'd want to wear it, as the
Mongols did, because it makes taking an arrow out of your body
much easier because the silk would conform to the shape of the
arrow head.  But that isn't the case here.

> Also, remember they were fighting English troops who
> would probably be wearing light chainmail. They would be as encumbered if
> not more.

Wet chainmail isn't much heavier than dry chainmail.  Where wet tartan plaid,
and the quantity we're talking about, would be a major hindrance.  We're not
talking about the simple kilt and spooran arrangement you see today, but the
lengthy cloth wrapped around and around the waist and shoulder.  You take the
chainmail, I'll take the freedom of movement and the fear I'd instill,
especially
since you've been hearing bagpipes for days that have set your teeth on edge
as they play all through the night, after marching through rough terrain.

Also, we're talking long before there was an England to speak of.
Pre-1000 AD.

> 2) The weather in Scotland is not exactly the best in the world. Anyone
> running about without their kilt or trousers for that matter would probably
> catch their death of cold. And I am sure an Scotsman back then would rather
> die by the cold steel of an Englishman's sword than lying sniffling on their
> bed.

Its only for the duration of the fight, and you don't catch a cold based on how
much skin you have exposed to the elements.

> I had heard that when required to move quickly and on forced marches they
> would remove their kilts. But, this then raises the question of what they
> did with them? If they carried them, surely they would still be as
> encumbered?

I never heard that and it doesn't make any sence to me, unless
chafing was an issue.

- --
Bloo
Resounding Technology
Creators of RogerWilco
http://www.resounding.com/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:08:48 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Equivalences HG and FFS2

Would it be fair to equate the USP of a T4 weapon eg

USP 2-1-0-0

to a High Guard one by summing the USP ratings eg

USP 2-1-0-0 becomes USP 2+1+0+0 ie USP3?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 15:44:45 +0100
From: Volker Greimann <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Age of TML members.

>>Out of interest, how many people on this mailing list are below 25 years of
>>age?
I qualify as well. For about nine more months...
Volker
- ---
Volker A. Greimann, greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:09:24 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: BITS and NATS

Mike Peters writes:
>"In this same line why do the Brits (no insult intended) have BITS?
>Where
>is the NATS (North American Traveller's Society)? After all it IS "Yanks
>in Space" ;^> why aren't we yanks doing more to promote it?"

Possibly because not all North Americans are Yanks? (Even though most
polls show that our neighbours south of te border have only a hazy idea
that Canada is a separate country - let alone their largest trading
partner.)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:14:51 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? ) 

> ---Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com> wrote:
> >
> > Wayne Ewart wrote:
> > > 
> > > >
> > > Being from Edmonton, I'd rather go to Maine over "Cowtown" any day!
> > 
> > Deadmonton, eh? Well, this is getting off topic.
> > 
> > However, it's nice to know yet another Albertan on the list.
> 
> Ayuh.  Now that Deadmonton and Cowtown are out of the running, it's
> down to a choice between Toledo or Vacationland.  Gee, tough choice, eh?

No choice there.  Toledo is like 70 miles from Detroit/Windsor.  If we get a bit burnt out playing Traveller for a week straight, we can always go hit the casinos in Windsor.

Or, if we get *too* bored, we can always go down to the lake & watch the fish die.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1401
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 10 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1402



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: TravellerCon
Re: Last chance for Traveller-I think not!
Re: Traveller's Last Chance?
Re: Age of TML members 
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1382
Re: TravellerCon
Random Generation vs. points
Re: TravellerCon 
Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.
Traveller Con
Re: Age of TML members.
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? ) 
Re: BITS and NATS
Re: Man-Kzin war 
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Re: T5, GT and SJG
Re: jumpspace recursion
Re: TravellerCon
RE: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?
RE: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:17:04
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon

At 01:22 PM 1/10/99 EST, you wrote:
>Hi-
>   So how about TravellerCon in Normal, Illinois, center of the universe?

Hmm..

It's central, has great meaning to Traveller fans, and should be cheap.

Since TravellerCon will probably be under a hundred folks (drawing upon the
wife's experiences with Callahanicon), things like function space aren't
really a concern.

Which is why I suggested using GenCon.  Let TSR/Andon/WOTC pay for the
gaming space!  We could even (with Marc's permission) work up "T5 is
coming!" shirts.  Imagine the sight of that!
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Pawn of the Droyne Conspiracy.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

UTUP: 0304 B-662D37B-5-5-2

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:25:28 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Last chance for Traveller-I think not!

><<=20
> Concluding, i must say, that to me, Traveller seems to be on the rise
> again. When T5 comes out, lets be ready to promote Traveller. Let make
> Traveller a success again, for the greatest resource of Traveller,
> regardless of the creed or System, is us, the fans.=20
> Volker >>
>
>	Right On!   I'm really looking forward to seeing some T5 stuff.  has anyone
>seen any of the play test files?   I'd really like to get some demo games
>going at a local extremely-gamer friendly store here in North VA, but haven't
>seen any of the files.  Is any of the material going to be compatable with T4
>data? (well, with Emp's arsenal anyway, I kind of lked that one).
>
>		Dave Nelson


I would be willing to submit short story fiction, NPC's, and scenario 
concepts if anyone has a periodical planned.
Roger Barr

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:22:42 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller's Last Chance?

>> work together. Then, I have other groups, that would act (sort of like
>> Greenpeace) to intercede and take down specific nasty and brutal regimes on
>> specific worlds. They may be wide-eyed idealists teaching the

>I don't answer for Greenpeace, but I suspect they would deny what you wrote
>about them!
>
>Incidentally, I was one of the people that introduced "non-violent revolt"
>as an alternative to minority putsches (look it up in your dictionary, damn
>it!).  I don't necessarily see such revolts as "non-violent", just as not
>necessarily being the same as guerilla wars/terrorism.


I was merely drawing parallels between the active, stunt heavy Greenpeace
folks, and the 3I revolutionaries I have created. It's more along the lines
of the activity level that I'm drawing a parallel with, not the activity
itself.

When I was saying non-violent revolt I truly _meant_ non-violent revolt, ala
Martin Luther King (among others). I was just trying to describe that the
_full range_ of human activities goes on in my 3I. That's all :^)

>All hunky-dory in my book.  Oberlindes Lines, IMTU, is a candidate
>Megacorp.  It's still hooked to the free trader crowd.


Megacorporations will have all the sorts of setups that real world
corporations have or have had, and then some.

>This of course is the important point.


Hey why should we believe that the concept of "left" and "right" should be
even remotely tied to our what we view them as today?

>So you'll be reading this over breakfast?  Sleep well...  I'm thinking of
>cooking dinner.  It's Sunday night, a bit after 6:30 pm.


Not quite, it's the afternoon now as I'm replying. I imagine some very early
risers were eating breakfast when I posted the original... :^)


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:24:44 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Age of TML members 

> > >Stuart Ferris said:
> >>
> > >Out of interest, how many people on this mailing list are below 25 years
> of
> > >age?
> 
> >Mental or physical ?
> 
> I just think this sort of information is important in establishing the state
> of Traveller in the late 90s and whether it has a future in the 21st
> century. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the majority of people on the
> mailing list are over 25 years and have been playing the game for over ten
> years. Perhaps we should do a survey of the list membership?

I admit to being 'mid-40s' someplace, been playing since '78.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:31:00 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1382

>
>Bruce
>>>>>
>I like this!  This provides the cinematic feel that Real World (tm) 
lasers don't give (shaking the ship when it receives a hit from an 
energy weapon).  Bruce's reading of the material differs from mine (I 
had the impression that the gravity focusing happened in the weapon 
itself), but I might be persuaded to make the 'feel' of space combat 
more familiar to those who grew up on Star Wars and Star Trek.
>- Joseph
>
IMTU, a laser hit on a vessel will always rock the vessel slightly. 
After all, there is an outburst of kinetic energy as the hit section of 
hull metal explodes from such heat. If the fuel tanks were struck, the 
resulting water to steam conversion will most assuredly make a notable 
impression.
Roger Barr


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:31:24 EST
From: Thendal@aol.com
Subject: Re: TravellerCon

And very much out of the way.


Has anyone considered the east coast for a TravellerCon.
Say Reading PA.

Costs are lower and very easy to get to by car, bus , plane, and soon train.
Philly a major east coast city is only 45 mins to an hour away.

Think about it.
Thendal

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:20:03 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Random Generation vs. points

A message in the last digest had some comments on random creation vs.
points. I thought I'd jump into this debate.

One statement that was made was that point based systems produce characters
that are more or less equal. This is one of the greatest strengths of this
kind of system, IMO. If all the characters are at roughly the same level of
ability it not only cuts down on players resenting those with "better"
characters, but it makes adventures easier to plan and balance as well.

As for characters being "optimized", that can happen in any game system,
random creation or not. I saw it happen a lot in AD&D over the years. if a
player feels he needs to have an 'edge' over the other players, he'll find a
way to get it. It is the job of the GM, not the game system, to prevent
this. GURPS does have some built-in safeguards to prevent this kind of
thing, but there are ways around it. In the final analysis, my experience in
almost 20 years of gaming is that players are happier when the character
matches their conception of what they want to play. I can remember being
really frustrated when rolling up Traveller characters, when I wanted to
play a hotshot pilot and got stuck with yet another Marine who got mustered
out after one term. I won't deny that creating characters for CT and the
later incarnations can be fun, but I like the Quick Generation options I see
in the T5 draft, and will likely be using those.

In the final analysis, we all go with what we enjoy. There is no right or
wrong way to go about it.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:31:56 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon 

> For at least the first one, might I suggest the best place for a
> TravellerCon would be the birthplace of Traveller itself, Bloomington-Normal
> Illinois? I've been there (even seen the original GDW offices); it's a nice
> town, has some nice game shops, Illinois State University, and would be
> appropriate.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

I can dig it.  Kinda like a pilgrimage to Mecca kinda thing.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:47:40 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.


>In mail you write:
>
>> IMTU the Imperial Marines use bagpipes.  One of the proudest skill
>> qualifications is Pipeman, and many in the Navy think that the only reason
>> the Marines love the pipes is because it annoys the Navy.


Not this fish. I've found more mud-suckers hate the pipes then do fish.

>Ever hear *real* "war pipes"? With the *huge* drones, deliberately out
>of tune with each other....
>


Maybe because I'm of Scot dissent, but I love the pipes, even badly played.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:50:43 +0000
From: kwalsh@cube.ice.net
Subject: Traveller Con

I dunno:
I vote we go for the birthplace of Traveller
Bloomington-Normal Illinois
while GDW no longer exists, theres still a few
Traveller gamers in the area [Hi Don]
and some decent facilities to hold it at
we could even get a group picture of the mob 
in front of the old GDW office.

The GDW/Conflict Games sign STILL hangs above the door to the 
office[unless its been taken down since about December 30th]


The Cat of Ghosts and Shadows
"Never try to outstubborn a cat"
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf
Chieftain of Clan Shadowcat

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:47:20 PST
From: "Paul Zumstein" <pzumstein@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Age of TML members.

>HEAVEN is where all the police are English, the mechanics
>German, the lovers Greek, and the cooks French, and it's
>all run by the Swiss.  HELL is where all the police are
>German, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, and the
>cooks English, and it's all run by the Greeks.
>                      (from a t-shirt I bought in Greece)

I'm almost afraid to ask my wife if this is true!

Paul "the Swiss" Zumstein

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:42:58 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? ) 

> > > But summer is the best time to visit Vacationland, Maine!  I have the
> > > perfect spot, too.  It's free, it's scenic, it has great dirt bike
> > > riding trails and big barbeque pits.  Woo hoo, Traveller Reunion
> > > coming like a fast attack ship!  =:-o
> >
> > Now, wait just a minute! Calgary, Alberta has a spot that's free,
> > scenic, and has great dirt bike trails and BBQ pits too. Although I
> > don't see myself dirt-biking while playing Traveller. Besides, there are
> > two of us on the TML in Calgary, so that's two votes to your one!
> 
>   My vote is for the metro detroit area, nothing is free here and we can use
> burned out cars as BBQ pits :)

Toledo is in the Metro-Detroit area.

And as I said earlier, if things get too mind numbing, we can always go down 
to the lake and watch the fish die...

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:19:11 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: BITS and NATS

Rob Prior wrote:
> 
> Mike Peters writes:
> >"In this same line why do the Brits (no insult intended) have BITS?
> >Where
> >is the NATS (North American Traveller's Society)? After all it IS "Yanks
> >in Space" ;^> why aren't we yanks doing more to promote it?"
> 
> Possibly because not all North Americans are Yanks? (Even though most
> polls show that our neighbours south of te border have only a hazy idea
> that Canada is a separate country - let alone their largest trading
> partner.)

Actually I realize this very well, shipping costs and signing customs
sheets for game items. I actuall started the tagline as a jab at the
fact that the biggest organized fan support network active in Traveller
today ISN'T in the country where Traveller was created. It certainly
wasn't meant to offend our neighbors to the north. That and the fact
that NATS sounds better than "USTS"

Appologies for any offense and if it is a problem let me know and I'll
drop the tag line! There's been enough hard feelings on the list lately!

- -- 
Mike Peters
travelleri@home.com
"In this same line why do the Brits (no insult intended) have BITS? Where
is the NATS (North American Traveller's Society)? After all it IS "Yanks
in Space" ;^> why aren't we yanks doing more to promote it?"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 15:03:05 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Man-Kzin war 

> In mail you write:
> 
> >> How about the Pak?
> >> 
> >> 3I vs the Pak? 
> >
> > 3I wins it hands down.  Not only does their technology overwhelm the Pak 
> > Protectors, but also the Protectors are extremely predictable.  As Brennan 
> > said, there's very little free will in a Protector.  They'll figure out the 
> > best possible tactic every time and use it.  All you have to do is figure 
> > out what it'll be and sucker them into it, then clobber them.
> 
> Slight problem. You are confusing "lack of free will" with stupidity.
> They "lack free will" because they are so much smarter than we are that
> there's usually only one solution for a given problem given a specific
> set of tools and to *them* it is obvious.

No I'm not.  I'm keeping in mind that Pak starting tech is way low compaired 
to human tech.  For instance a 'true line' Pak wouldn't know about advanced 
computers.  Why build a machine that processes information just as good as a 
Pak can?  This means, no Jump drives for them until they *do* capture some 
human tech.

Remember, the Pak had only ramscoop ships.  Brennan blew one up by domping a 
heavy element (boron gas, I think it was) into its scoop field in a 
semicontained stasis chanber where it fused up into the transuranics and blew 
out the scoop.  You take out their scoops, you *have* them.  And they're only 
4 or 5 G accelleration due to them not having gravitic compensaters.

> That means that they are smart enough to *know* when the best tactic is
> something that mere humans can figure out. 

You're forgetting that humans have advanced computer technology at their 
disposal.  Feed the info into a TL15 expert system, and it'll give you 
detailed plans on how to sucker them every time.
 
> Fighting something *that* much smarter than you is not easy. The only
> way to win is to *continually* be able to make use of informatiuon
> unknown to the protectors.

Which is where the human's advanced computer tech comes in.
 
> Also, against a foe the size of the third Imperium, you can be sure
> that the first thing they'll do is grab some isolated ships both for
> info, and to learn the technology. And there goes your tech advantage. 

*IF* they can.  Remember all those 'piracy is impossible' posts?  Well, they
just came home to roost.  <grin>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 15:13:35 -0500
From: Christopher Pratt <valen@gatecom.com>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> > > > But summer is the best time to visit Vacationland, Maine!  I have the
> > > > perfect spot, too.  It's free, it's scenic, it has great dirt bike
> > > > riding trails and big barbeque pits.  Woo hoo, Traveller Reunion
> > > > coming like a fast attack ship!  =:-o
> > >
> > > Now, wait just a minute! Calgary, Alberta has a spot that's free,
> > > scenic, and has great dirt bike trails and BBQ pits too. Although I
> > > don't see myself dirt-biking while playing Traveller. Besides, there are
> > > two of us on the TML in Calgary, so that's two votes to your one!
> >
> >   My vote is for the metro detroit area, nothing is free here and we can use
> > burned out cars as BBQ pits :)
>
> Toledo is in the Metro-Detroit area.
>
> And as I said earlier, if things get too mind numbing, we can always go down
> to the lake and watch the fish die...
>

sorry about that...thought you ment toronto...silly me

later
chris


> Keven
>
> tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                                      Science-Fiction Adventure
>                                                      In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:26:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: T5, GT and SJG

- ---Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi> wrote:
>   It's interesting, how much peoples' tastes in game mechanics
differ. I would personally never referee or play a game, that didn't
allow the players more or less total control over the generation of
their characters. (This is why I always felt the T4 character gen.
system was a 70's backdrop, that had no place in a game published in
the ninties.)<

I'm definitely your polar opposite, then.  I'd rather decide the
character for the player to use (tournament style) than let them make
their own.  Allowing players to generate the character under my direct
supervision would be second choice.  I have a habit of giving the most
experienced players the most challenging characters, while giving the
newbies someone straight-forward and powerful, like a ship
owner/captain or a burly marine.  It makes for a fun game when a
powerful newbie is attempting rash actions while the well-rounded
players run around trying to keep the adventure from falling down
around their ears.  Bull in a china shop, and all that.  It counters
typecasting and court-holding, too.



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4 ?tg ge- 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 

_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:35:49 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: jumpspace recursion

>If I was the ref, I'd ask for the ship and character sheets. Then when
>asked what happened, I'd simply say "The ships are never heard from
>again, so your *new* characters won't know what happened..."
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)


I bow to your wisdom. (After all, this still leaves the door open for a 
later return of the "lost ships and crew" if desired.)
Roger Barr

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:48:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon

- ---JLAROSEE@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi-
>    So how about TravellerCon in Normal, Illinois, center of the
universe? 

I always thought that Normal was an ironic name for the capital or
sci-fi gaming.  Count me in for the "Pilgrimage to Normal -
TravellerCon 99"



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4 ?tg ge- 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:43:13 -0000
From: "MindShift Design" <mindshift@usa.net>
Subject: RE: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?

> > > Why would I want a "command system" for "actual roleplaying" when I
> > > could just use language ?
> >
> > The point is that whenever you play in a roleplaying game, you
> can strip the
> > language down to some base elements. Disregarding the emotional,
> > psychological and physical state of your character, when you're being
> > attacked by 15 Vargr all carrying heavy weapons, for you to
> return fire you
> > still have to do the following:
> >
> > 1) Choose your targets
> > 2) Fire your weapon at your targets
>
> I want a hell of a lot more options than that.

There ARE a lot more options. I was just citing a breakdown of a particular
action. In the execution of that action there are obviously a lot more
factors and pathways for the development of the execution of that action.

> > So you could tell your GM 'I'm going to shoot at the lead
> Vargr'. At base
> > essentials, you've using a more involved system for roleplaying
> that still
> > relies on an underlying 'command system' - shoot weapon at
> target. You've
> > nominated your target, you've nominated your action. You've passed
> > parameters to the GM about what you want to do.
>
> Assuming you know which one is the leader.  More realistically, its
> Shoot the one that looks like he is leading, shoot the tallest one, the
> closest one, the one with the meanest looking gun, shoot over their heads
> and command them to put their guns down, hornswoggle them by pretending
> to be their superiors, telling them to look out for the Aslan
> Ihatei behind
> them,
> throw a nice juciy steak and run, etc, etc.

A lot of these options are available. But to perform these above actions,
you still have to pass more parameters than just 'fire your weapon at the
target'. You have to nominate your target, or perform another action
(telling them to look behind).

> > With computer moderation of any PBM/PBeM game you have to
> create a simple
> > interface for you to operate in the real world. Even Baldur's Gate and
> > Ultima Online rely on this. But our system allows you to
> perform most of the
> > actions that you would in a normal roleplaying by using an easy to
> > understand command system. You're still using language, just
> not as complex
> > as a human GM would be used to. But it is an effective bridge between
> > roleplaying and PBM.
>
> I don't think I want to play at a level below human GM complexity.

The complexity is still the same, just the communication medium changes.
It's like playing a game with a Frenchman, a Spaniard and an Italian, all of
whom know some English but not to the extent that you do. You can still
communicate the ideas, just the sentence structure changes to eliminate
errors in communication. (Apologies to any French, Spanish or Italian
members of the list, who are generally much better at speaking foreign
languages than those of us in the UK - my hats off to you. You have my
respect).

> > Besides how many human GMs could handle 1000 players playing 100s of
> > different missions scenarios at the same time and have all the players
> > interacting with each other in some way in a few minutes
> processing time ?
>
> 1000s interacting with 1000s?.  Why?

Because some people like that level of complexity. More to the point, it's
how a real econo-social system operates. Millions of small actions
controlling the destinies of other actions.

- --
Jason Paul McCartan					ICQ: 16802661
MindShift Design Game Studios			AIM: Japem
mindshift@usa.net
http://members.xoom.com/mindshift

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:43:05 -0000
From: "MindShift Design" <mindshift@usa.net>
Subject: RE: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?

> > > And how badly does it hang when a player doesn't respond?
> >
> > It doesn't. If a player doesn't submit a turn for play -
> they're ignored.
> > The main game engine runs through a queue of player turns
> processing turns
> > in a particular order. If in this situation a player didn't
> respond, they'd
> > simply still be left in the same position they were in, whilst
> the rest of
> > the world moved on. Just like in real life.
>
> Leaving the player in the same position is precisely the problem.
> If you've got a fire fight going on, in a real PBeM, there comes
> a time when the GM will need to step in and control the character
> of the player for the sake of gameplay so that everyone can move
> forward.

If the player was caught in a combat situation the combat would be resolved
and players wouldn't just be left high and dry. The software does something
pretty much the same. There are a lot of factors that are taken into account
for every situation that the game engine encounters.

It's a completely different game from a PBeM freeform or rules-based RPG
game. It's more an RPG/interactive fiction/storytelling system.

>
> > Out of character comments can be handle by including messages
> through the
> > Out Of Game Message system to the GM. However the command
> system is designed
> > to handle almost every situation that occurs. Of course having a human
> > moderate the game would help, but would also slow down the processing or
> > results depending on factors.
>
> So who creates the goals and handles NPCs?  You need a human GM for that.

That's not moderation of game rules. That's development of game world, which
although most of it is self-regulating, there is need for human creative
skills. Which is what the administrators of the game do - they set up all
the missions and other gameworld data from all the possible combinations.
The NPCs are controlled by the computer software after being set up - they
have their own drives, needs and ambitions, which the software uses to make
them interact with all the players, PC and NPC in the game.

> Your software sounds like it might make a great GM aid, but nothing I've
> heard suggests to me that it will or can take over effectively.

That's because I'm not giving out too many details. It's not even a GM Aid -
as it controls all the aspects of the game world and process results and
doesn't just aid the GM in the execution of thank.

Why not wait until it's available and then try it - you may like it ...

> Best of luck though.

Thanks.

- --
Jason Paul McCartan					ICQ: 16802661
MindShift Design Game Studios			AIM: Japem
mindshift@usa.net
http://members.xoom.com/mindshift

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1402
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 10 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1403



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Re: Ihatei Motivations (longish)
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Re: Pressure Suit Puncture
Re: GT tech levels 
Re: TravellerCon
Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?
Re: jumpspace recursion
Military Vacations
Re: Is Traveller a Science Fiction Roleplaying Game ?
Pipes at Normandy
Re: Traveller's Last Chance?
Re: Vargr & Aslan Tactics 
Re: Starship Component Densities
Re: Vargr, in combat.
Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?
Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.
Re: GT tech levels 
Re: Vargr, in combat.
Bye, Clif

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:49:43 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

>From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
>Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
>
>Well, I'll probably be in both Vancouver and Calgary this summer.
>
>How about planning get-togethers in both places?

  Vancouver in August? The Art Gallery's restaurant patio worked well
enough last time - for anything much more substantial there's UBC.

  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:56:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

- ---steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:
> 
> Sword Worlder wrote:
> > "Come to Maine, spend money, go home."
> > (The motto of Vacationland)
> 
> Why?  There is nothing I need or want there.
> Actually, there isn't much beyond my corner that I want or need since
> I have an Irish pub downstairs.  ;-)

My town has a used up nuke plant that we are remodeling into an
amusement park.  The Mass.'s throng here!  Don't tell me that six
hours of bumper-to-bumper (each way) would keep you from seeing a
great site like that?


ObTrav: In the New Era, are there any tour agencies that take
curiousity seekers to ruined centers of technology as if they were the
dino exhibit at the Peabody Museum?



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4 ?tg ge- 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:20:30 +0100
From: Volker Greimann <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Ihatei Motivations (longish)

<html><div>At 11:40 10.01.99 +0000, you wrote:</div>
<div>&gt; &quot;Alan Bradley&quot; &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;
wrote:</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt;&gt;Damn, I was thinking about proposing to do Aslan and K'kree
for SJ Games.</div>
<div>&gt;&gt;Why didn't I?&nbsp; Did anyone else put in a
proposal?</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt;I know of at least one that has gone in.</div>
<div>Aslan and Kkree?</div>
<div>Wouldnt Aslan and Droyne be a better combination for Spindwards
Marches Campaigns?</div>
<br>
<div>Especially as this allows Kkree to be grouped together with the
Hivers, later.</div>
<br>
<div>BTW: Does GT:Z&amp;V have any new information on the Joes? A friend
has seen it in a shop and i am thinking of buying it. Any comments on the
book?</div>
<br>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt;(Not me but someone else - sadly I've got three 101's on the go
at the moment).</div>
Hmmm? Really? Which topics? 
<BR>

Volker<br>
<div align="center">
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Volker A. Greimann ---
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061" eudora="autourl">http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061</a>
- --- greimann@geocities.com</html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:21:59 +0100
From: Volker Greimann <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

<html><div>At 10:25 10.01.99 -0600, you wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>&gt;&gt; Ayuh.&nbsp; Now that Deadmonton and Cowtown are out of the
running, it's</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; down to a choice between Toledo or Vacationland.&nbsp; Gee,
tough choice, eh?</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; </div>
<div>&gt;Not so fast.&nbsp; There are at least two TMLers who live in
Baton Rouge,</div>
<div>&gt;LA.&nbsp; How 'bout coming down to the Gulf South during the
summer? ;-)</div>
OK, how about neutral territory? Germany would be nice, maybe for the
Essen Games Fair this Oktober.....
<BR>

Volker<br>
<div align="center">
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Volker A. Greimann ---
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061" eudora="autourl">http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061</a>
- --- greimann@geocities.com</html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:52:23 +0100
From: Volker Greimann <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Pressure Suit Puncture

<html><div>At 20:51 20.12.98 -0500, you wrote:</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt;One thing is that you wouldn't hear the sound on the outside of
the suit,</div>
<div>&gt;due to the vacuum outside.</div>
<div>But it probably make a VERY nasty hissing sound on the inside, a
sound that says:</div>
<div>Be quick or be deadssssssssss.</div>
<BR>

Volker<br>
<div align="center">
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Volker A. Greimann ---
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061" eudora="autourl">http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061</a>
- --- greimann@geocities.com</html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:09:19 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: GT tech levels 

>I noticed the antimatter bug as well, when I started using GURPs vehicles.
>Maybe Loren had a change of heart or something? I don't know.

Actually, I like the idea of allowing antimatter powerplants in GT. If we
assume antimatter powerplants have a higher crew requirement than fusion
plants at G:T tech levels, then fusion will be far cheaper for starships
and canon will be unchanged.

Even if you let antimatter be cheaper to operate, powerplants in G:T are
sealed units so the game effect of having antimatter-power starships will
be nil.

- --
IMTU t4+ ru ge+ !3i(3i++) jt-- au+ ls- 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:09:23 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon

Thendal said:

>And very much out of the way.
>
>
>Has anyone considered the east coast for a TravellerCon.
>Say Reading PA.
>
>Costs are lower and very easy to get to by car, bus , plane, and soon train.
>Philly a major east coast city is only 45 mins to an hour away.


Hey, it sounds good to me, since Philadelphia is home for me. Being a
student on limited funds, this is a more realistic option for me personally.
However, the logistics of such a thing are truly daunting. If the people on
this list are serious about it, I'll look into seeing if I can get a
location for free or very low cost. What kind of location would be needed?
We don't need a convetion center or anything, right? Something like a hall?


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:11:22 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?

>>for you to return fire you
>> still have to do the following:
>>
>> 1) Choose your targets
>> 2) Fire your weapon at your targets
>
>I want a hell of a lot more options than that.
>
>> So you could tell your GM 'I'm going to shoot at the lead Vargr'. At base
>> essentials, you've using a more involved system for roleplaying that
still
>> relies on an underlying 'command system' - shoot weapon at target. You've
>> nominated your target, you've nominated your action. You've passed
>> parameters to the GM about what you want to do.
>
>Assuming you know which one is the leader.  More realistically, its
>Shoot the one that looks like he is leading, shoot the tallest one, the
>closest one, the one with the meanest looking gun, shoot over their heads
>and command them to put their guns down, hornswoggle them by pretending
>to be their superiors, telling them to look out for the Aslan Ihatei behind
>them,
>throw a nice juciy steak and run, etc, etc.'

He specifically said, "for you to return fire".  He probably could have
spent the rest of his life outlining every possible outcome, but I fear even
then you would have come up with another option, just so you could piss and
moan.

>
>> With computer moderation of any PBM/PBeM game you have to create a simple
>> interface for you to operate in the real world. Even Baldur's Gate and
>> Ultima Online rely on this. But our system allows you to perform most of
the
>> actions that you would in a normal roleplaying by using an easy to
>> understand command system. You're still using language, just not as
complex
>> as a human GM would be used to. But it is an effective bridge between
>> roleplaying and PBM.
>
>I don't think I want to play at a level below human GM complexity.
>

Then don't!
>
>> Besides how many human GMs could handle 1000 players playing 100s of
>> different missions scenarios at the same time and have all the players
>> interacting with each other in some way in a few minutes processing time
?
>
>1000s interacting with 1000s?.  Why?


Because you're talking about how many systems and because more players means
more variability and more variability means more realism.  Kinda the old
axim, "Two heads are better than one."
>
>I'm getting more and more skeptical.
>
>Bloo


- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:19:45 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: jumpspace recursion

>> How about this, I adjust the artificial gravity to a microgravity level
>> around the ship, then its Jump Drive, in theory could work, if you remember
>> we have removed the variable of gravity from the equation, not the rest of
>> the variables...
>
>It doesn't whack out the mass, though.

In Traveller, ships have used artificial gravity for centuries without
interfering with jump drives. YTU could use "Jump floating" (switching off
artificial gravity when initiating jump), but this is not canon.

The notion that the second ship is inside the other ship's "10 diameter
limit" is also problematic since every ship is obviously inside its own
diameter, and this ruling would make canon jump drives impossible. IMTU,
the jump limit is caused by a gravity gradient, not intensity, and things
like ships do not produce a sufficient gradient at any distance.

- --
IMTU t4+ ru ge+ !3i(3i++) jt-- au+ ls- 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:36:04 +0000
From: "Tim" <tim@premier.net>
Subject: Military Vacations

I have been thinking about a Traveller campaign and started to wonder 
how to get military characters into an adventure without starting a 
war.  The problem is how long are military leaves.  I know that in 
most militaries you build up vacation time (about 2weeks to a month) 
over a year.  But in Traveller thats hardly enough time to jump back 
and forth to another system let alone a long trip.

I figure most enlisted and NCO's would get the above form of 
vacation not counting shore leave.  Officers on the other hand may 
actually get leave of absents for up to a year maybe more if there is 
no major conflict, with the condition that they are on a recall 
standing.

Anybody have any suggestions or thoughts
Tim Reynolds
tim@premier.net 
www.premier.net/~tim 
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable 
sexual disease.  It made you unsuitable for 
a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.]

Terry Pratchett 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:25:12 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Is Traveller a Science Fiction Roleplaying Game ?

>
>  Does hard science need to be so evident in comments on other peoples
>suggestions ?  Ok it is useful but I am a fan of the Gizmo that science 
has
>not yet created or is not possible in the Real World.
>
>

This is my opinion:
Traveller is a role playing game that the referee can do anythign he 
wants to.Some people get stuck on rules: this can't happen because of 
this, that or whatever. I have had a two players who have left my games 
because I didn't folow the standardized rules set forth in the 
Traveller-Bible-rulebook.

IMTU, as a referee, I do whatever I want to the players. My entire goal 
as a referee is for everyone to have a really enjoyable session, and my 
players never have a complaint. (Well, at least I haven't heard any, and 
one of them is on this mailing list, so I might get some unexpected 
feedback here.)
:)
Remember the most important things are:
1. Whatever decisions you make as a referee, stay consistant. Make sure 
if the players know something is considered a constant, then stick to 
it. This can be real science (which is easier to remember than alot of 
pseudo-science), and totally off the wall "magical technology".

2. The entire goal is to have fun. As a gamemaster, you are a host. You 
create the realm for the players to enjoy. Just make sure to try to tune 
into the desires of the players and mold your designs and adventures 
into what they tend to like. It will often stretch your imagination as 
well.

If you want a gizmo or a gadget in your game, then make one up. Try to 
use hard science when you can, but there is nothing wrong with 
experimental equipment that noone understands.

The primary rule of all RPG's is to have fun.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:22:03 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Pipes at Normandy

Why not show me(cut and paste) the whole history of the Scots landing at
Normandy and show me that there is NO mention of pipes being used, instead
of ASSUMING that a movie based on the landing at Normandy (much of it was
lifted in "Saving Private Ryan" if they weren't both based on the same
primary source) is total B.S.?

I would think that would be the smarter thing to do, unless of course, you
were being an ass and trying to get a rise out of me.

- --Clif



>> From: Clif <brclif@digital.net>
>> Subject: Re: Vargr & Aslan Tactics
>>
>> I think I saw them bring them to Normandy in a WWII film called "The Long
>> Day" or "The Longest Day" or something like that.
>>
>> --Clif
>
>Now, he is siting proof from a movie...  What next?  Maybe something that
>Asimov wrote?  Like all robots have imbedded intheir brains his three laws
>of robotics?
>
>Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
>ICQ # 8973001
>legate@futureone.com
>http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm
>
>"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
>the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
>mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
>of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:33:32 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller's Last Chance?

>
>OK, I'm planning on going to GenCon this year.  Shall we make plans to 
have
>a Traveller party?  I have a friend who microbrews, and he can provide 
all
>the Scout Brew we can drink.  :P
>
>I'm serious about this, and I'll be happy to plan it if enough people
>decide to go.
>
>--
>
>+------------------------------------+
>| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
>|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |


When and where is the con?
(No thanks for the Scout's Brew! Last time I had one, well okay, three, 
I ended up on a bulk merchant freighter married to a Vargr with fifteen 
pups! The divorce cost me an air/raft!)
:)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:32:00 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Vargr & Aslan Tactics 

I don't want them.

Your sympathies, if they even exist, aren't worth the toilet paper they are
smeared on.

- --Clif
- -----Original Message-----
From: Douglas E. Berry <dberry@hooked.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: Vargr & Aslan Tactics


>At 04:54 PM 1/8/99 -0500, Clif wrote:
>>If it is argument FOR the originally described Vargr method, then it is ME.
>>If it is argument AGAINST, it is everyone else.
>>First you want me to clip everything originally said and now you want me to
>>keep it and source it, too?
>
>No, we want you to adhere to the common rules of netiquette.
>
>>Just follow the greater than signs, since we are all supposed to be able to
>>REMEMBER who send what in all previous posts.
>
>Coming from the man who said "I can't remember who said it" about a salient
>point in his own thread.
>
>>At 150 posts/day, I don't have time to "source" the quotes, especially when
>>it seems to be me against the list.
>
>You do not have my sympathies.
>
>--
>
>Doug Berry
>dberry@hooked.net
>http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 15:36:57 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Starship Component Densities

Charles Collin wrote:
> 
> Hi all.  I don't have a copy of FF&S, so could some kind soul out there
> give me some idea as to the weight per unit volume of various starship
> components?  How heavy is a cubic meter of powerplant?  Of armor?  How
> heavy is a stateroom, low berth, etc.?  For that matter, how dense is an
> average ship or a well-armored ship?  I don't need all the specific
> examples (though if you want to send them, I won't complain), just some
> general notions about the density of these things.
> 
Well, one thing you could use as a reference is Andrew Akins' FF&S2
spreadsheet (version 3.2).  That would give you just about all the
values you're looking for, rolled up in a spreadsheet you can use (in
several formats, including Excel 5, Excel 97, and Quattro Pro 8.0).  You
can download it from:

http://www.truserve.com/~igor/traveller/frames/index.htm

Alternately <plug>, you can download the Akins spreadsheet (Excel 5),
with the data for my TUSCALOOSA-class heavy cruiser, from my Web site
(see address in my sig file). </plug>

<<snip sig>>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:34:47 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Vargr, in combat.

>
>Nope, pretty Vargr like.
>
>At Ft. Benning (that's an Army base, Clif)

Right, where dumb ass grunts like yourself jump out of perfectly good
airplanes, if your First Sergeant thinks your sorry ass is worth a slot.
(Gee, I reckon I lernt that in one of 'dem moving pictures!)

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:37:24 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?

>Could you please, please generate a real-life E-Mail system where Clif
>can play in his own way, on his own? ;-)
>
>Sorry, Clif, just trying to inject a little humour!
>
>Derrick Jones


No problem.  Ribbing is one thing.  Chronic dickheads are another.

- --Clif

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:45:52 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.

But howls are not.

- --Clif

>"Bagpipes at four AM can be a
>frightening thing, Colonel."
>
>
>James
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:50:15 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: GT tech levels 

>Actually, I like the idea of allowing antimatter powerplants in GT. If we
>assume antimatter powerplants have a higher crew requirement than fusion
>plants at G:T tech levels, then fusion will be far cheaper for starships
>and canon will be unchanged.


When I said that it was possible that Loren had a change of heart for one
reason or another, that's kind of what I meant. Maybe there's a major flaw
that would drive folks away from antimatter and to fusion?

Let me get out G:Vehicles and see what the truth of the matter is. At GTL 11
(Traveller TL 14) antimatter reactors first become available. A fusion
reactor at this TL weighs (0.2 x kilowatt) + 2000 pounds, while an
antimatter reactor weighs (0.1 x kilowatt) + 4000 pounds. A fusion plant
will weigh a little under a ton less than an antimatter plant with the same
output. At really high outputs they'll get closer and closer together. At
GTL 12 (TTL 15), however, there is no change in fusion plants while
antimatter reactors dip down to (0.05 x kilowatt) + 2000 pounds.

Fusion plants at GTL 11 cost $25 per pound, while antimatter plants cost
only $20 per pound. Minimum cost for both is $20,000. The reactor cores have
an extra cost for both, GTL 11: fusion $100,000... antimatter $200,000. GTL
12: antimatter $100,000

Where the big difference comes in is the price and frequency of refueling.
Fusion plants run for 200 years on their fuel, while antimatter runs for 2.5
years at GTL 11, and 5 years from GTL 12 on up. It costs nothing to refuel
the fusion plant (it runs on hydrogen), while fuel for an antimatter plant
costs $1,000 per gram. One gram makes it run for 2.5 or 5 years, depending
on GTL of the plant. Antimatter bays (for storing extra fuel) cost $500 per
gram of antimatter stored, have a volume of 0.5 cubic feet and weigh 50
pounds at GTL 12 (double that at GTL 11).

So where do all those numbers put us?

Let's see. With a fusion drive on a ship, you know you're going to run for
200 years on a full tank of hydrogen. You can get hydrogen cheaply anywhere.
At GTL 12, a fusion drive is going to weigh less and be a bit cheaper.
However, in order to be able to run for 200 years, you'd need to pump a good
deal of money into containment tanks for your antimatter, and a fair amount
of weight. That would be an extra $10,000 for the containment, and an extra
half ton. Further, you're going to have to find a planet that manufactures
antimatter fuel if you need a refill. It's not that hard to make antimatter,
we've been able to do it since the 30s (if my science is correct). However,
there may not be enough profit in it until higher TLs. If refuelling is
chancy, well... nobody's going to use it in ships.

Will liquid hydrogen explode if it is hit by enemy fire? I suspect that if
your antimatter containment unit is breached, then you're in for a pretty
big explosion. That might be something of a limiting factor.

In any case, you can use antimatter as it is in the GURPS universe, which
doesn't really give enough of an advantage to put fusion plant manufactories
out of business. You can move the GTL of antimatter plants up one level,
which would mean at TTL 15 (GTL 12) you'd have a technology that wouldn't be
able to really compete with fusion drives. You could move it up 2 levels,
which would mean it would become available only in the future of the
Imperium.

You can also up the price considerably (a factor of two would be enough, but
if you really want to go crazy, a factor of ten would make antimatter a
really ugly option for shipbuilders to consider). Or you can do any
combination of these ideas! Hell, you could even move antimatter to GTL8 and
put fusion out of business before it really gets off the ground. It is YTU
after all! ;^)


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:59:24 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Vargr, in combat.

Right, I remember that being mentioned in the Star Wars BluePrint Manual.

Forget it, guy, the established, entrenched majority has decided to poo-poo
the idea simply because *I* presented it.

- --Clif

>>BTW, and I'm NOT going to get involved in Vargr combat tactics, but
>>where did the idea that canines howl to announce the intention of
>>combat come from?  I've never heard that animals in the canine
>>family, dog, wolf, coyote, jackal howl *before* attacking, and they
>>never have in attacks I've seen.  If it was a dominance or defense
>>attack, there was barking, whimpering and growling, yes, but not
>>full-throated howling.  If the attack was predatory it began silently
>>with barks, growls and yips taking place *during*, but not before.
>>
>>So, why *do* canines howl?  I suggest it is as a form of
>>communication announcing and marking their territory, and announcing
>>their location and identity to the rest of their pack.
>>
>>Do Vargr howl?  It wouldn't surprise me if they did, but not in the
>>way, or for the reasons, Clif suggests.
>
>Remember how in World War II, the Germans designed their fighters to
>emit some sort of "whine" that had a very demoralizing effect on the
>victims of their attacks?  (This is also the reason behind the whine you
>hear from Imperial TIE fighters in Star Wars).  When humans are alone at
>night and hear the howl of wolves in the distance, it tends to strike
>fear and apprehension.
>
>Perhaps the Vargr know this of humans and howl accordingly to demoralize
>humans when they attack.
>
>Just a thought.
>
>
>
>
>
>Rick Elrod
>rickelrod@hotmail.com
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:08:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Bye, Clif

- ---Clif <brclif@digital.net> wrote:
>
> I don't want them.
> 
> Your sympathies, if they even exist, aren't worth the toilet paper
they are
> smeared on.
> 
> --Clif


The above is a typical "Clif" reply to a recent post.  It's getting to
be a regular thing.  Since we don't know Clif's parents phone number,
and therefore can't ask them to correct their youngster's behavior,
what say we just give this NPC a cyber-spanking and jettison his
carcas into jump space?  Nah, on second thought, the caca-mouth would
probably enjoy it!




==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4 ?tg ge- 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1403
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 10 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1404



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392
Re: Military Vacations
Re: BITS and NATS
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392
Re: Last chance for Traveller-I think not!
Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)
Re: Ihatei Motivations (longish)
re: Escorts and Area Point Defense (High Guard, long)
Re: Ihatei Motivations (longish)
Face-to-face Interactions (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance?)
Re: BITS and NATS
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Few things recently posted (actually related (but not really to trav))
Re: Grav Focus Lasers
Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)
Re: BITS and NATS
Re: Grav Focus Lasers
Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?
Re: Pipes at Normandy
Re: BITS and NATS
Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)
Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:10:35 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392

>
>In the UK RPGer's are referred to usually as 'sad, lonely, miserable
>b*st*rds who wouldn't know what a woman was if it came up an bit them 
on the
>butt' (I'm using an Americanism there, we would normally say arse).
>
>Stuart Ferris
>stuart.ferris@virgin.net
>http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm
>
>
My (american) wife agrees.
;)
Roger Barr

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:11:53 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Military Vacations

Tim wrote:
> 
> I have been thinking about a Traveller campaign and started to wonder
> how to get military characters into an adventure without starting a
> war.  The problem is how long are military leaves.  I know that in
> most militaries you build up vacation time (about 2weeks to a month)
> over a year.  But in Traveller thats hardly enough time to jump back
> and forth to another system let alone a long trip.
> 
OTOH, I wouldn't expect the level of personnel turbulence one finds in,
for instance, the US military.  Personnel would tend to enlist, serve,
and retire in the same unit in the Imperial military.  Thus, there would
be less need to travel to take leave, as your immediate family is
probably living nearby.

Imperial Navy vessels, and Imperial Marine units, would probably operate
in a fashion generally similar to the way USN and USMC units do today. 
They would spend several months on a cruise, then return for some time
to their home port.  The home port time would be used for such things as
military schools, ship refits, and leave.  In addition, shore leave at
various ports of call would be an option.

> I figure most enlisted and NCO's would get the above form of
> vacation not counting shore leave.  Officers on the other hand may
> actually get leave of absents for up to a year maybe more if there is
> no major conflict, with the condition that they are on a recall
> standing.
> 
> Anybody have any suggestions or thoughts

I wouldn't think that a policy of putting officers on leave for extended
periods of time would be a good one.  Taking the officers out of their
units in such a fashion would hurt unit cohesion (it's harder to develop
teamwork when the person who is expected to lead a unit isn't there, and
won't be there until the balloon goes up).

One way you can involve active duty military characters in adventures is
to assign them to duties outside regular line units.  For instance,
personnel assigned as advisors to reserve or planetary force units would
likely have more time available to adventure, as might recruiters and
military/naval attaches.

<<snip sig>>
- -- 
- ------
|    |  AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:15:43 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: BITS and NATS

>Mike Peters 
 writes:
>> Mike Peters writes:
>> >"In this same line why do the Brits (no insult intended) have BITS?
>> >Where
>> >is the NATS (North American Traveller's Society)? After all it IS
>"Yanks
>> >in Space" ;^> why aren't we yanks doing more to promote it?"
>> 
>> Possibly because not all North Americans are Yanks? (Even though most
>> polls show that our neighbours south of te border have only a hazy idea
>> that Canada is a separate country - let alone their largest trading
>> partner.)
[snip]
>
>Appologies for any offense and if it is a problem let me know and I'll
>drop the tag line! There's been enough hard feelings on the list lately!

I agree with the concept of a support organization (that's why I joined
BITS). It's just that I'm _not_ a Yank, so your tagline eliminates me.
(And probably those proud Texans, too, come to that.) Possibly you could
widen the scope...?

(And I'm not offended - I saw the smiley, and I'm known you long enough to
know that you are making a joke. But we _have_ recently seen some people
assuming that US laws apply to the rest of the world, so I decided to
respond.)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:19:12 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392

We normally used the names "Imps" or "Impies" as a derogatory phrase, 
and "royals" or "Imperials" for those who were trying not to offer 
offense.

The overlords has also been used before. (Ruling over the space above 
the worlds)

Roger Barr




>Okay, to ObTrav the discussion: What is the proper word for Imperial
>citizens? Is it 'imperials'? I use that one to refer to the navy, the
>marines, and the direct _Imperial_ types. Is there a generic word for 
the
>dirthuggers of the Imperium? You know, the people who are citizens of
>specific planets, but not specifically involved in Imperial affairs? Is 
such
>a distinction needed?
>

>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
>"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
>"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
>     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"
>
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:37:43 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392

>We normally used the names "Imps" or "Impies" as a derogatory phrase,
>and "royals" or "Imperials" for those who were trying not to offer
>offense.


What I'm looking for, though, is a word for the description of the citizens
of the interstellar community who are _not_ directly involved in Imperial
affairs...

>The overlords has also been used before. (Ruling over the space above
>the worlds)


This one's nice for the impies, if it does sound a bit "evil" to my 20th
century ears! ;^)


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:26:38 +0100
From: Volker Greimann <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Last chance for Traveller-I think not!

<html><div>At 11:25 10.01.99 -0800, you wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>&gt;I would be willing to submit short story fiction, NPC's, and
scenario </div>
<div>&gt;concepts if anyone has a periodical planned.</div>
<div>&gt;Roger Barr</div>
<br>
Well, i dunno about periodicals, but thereis always the
<a href="http://www/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>WWW</a>. Put up your own Traveller
Website, or add to someones own, like the Freelance Traveller or others.
Or submit it to BITS, maybe they need something for 101 NPCs, 101
Scenarios, etc....
<BR>

Volker<br>
<div align="center">
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Volker A. Greimann ---
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061" eudora="autourl">http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061</a>
- --- greimann@geocities.com</html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:47:34 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)

>No problem.  Ribbing is one thing.  Chronic dickheads are another.
>
>--Clif


Folks, I'd heartly suggest *everyone* ignore this individual. He's a troll.

ObTrav: From a design standpoint, a lot of Aslan equipment as depicted seems
to me to be less than efficient. Are they a race that places aesthetics
higher than functionality? For example, would an Aslan ACR have all kinds of
flutes and ridges, or would it be of a more workmanlike design? [I'm trying
to draw some images of Aslan and I am wanting to develop some ideas.] In a
lot of cases using the most efficient form for an object (an air/raft, for
example) will make objects of the same function (other air/rafts) look
pretty similar, regardless of the species of the builder. Would an Aslan
designer take this into account, and, for example, build a vehicle that is
less streamlined than a human one based only on aesthetic principal? Or
would they be satisfied with just an Aslan-style paint job and grillwork?

On a related note, how would you describe the Aslan aesthetic sense, in
words? Do you envision them as having a unified cultural sense, or as having
a more diverse set of aesthetics (i.e. abstract expressionism v.
neo-classicism, etc.)

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:59:31 +0000
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Ihatei Motivations (longish)

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> writes
>
> "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au> wrote:
>
>>Damn, I was thinking about proposing to do Aslan and K'kree for SJ Games.
>>Why didn't I?  Did anyone else put in a proposal?
>
>I know of at least one that has gone in.
>
>(Not me but someone else - sadly I've got three 101's on the go at the moment).

With Loren's encouragement I submitted a proposal for just the Aslan 
chapter, since I knew I wouldn't have time for both. If anybody fancies 
doing just the K'Kree that would suit me... ;-)

I got home from holiday yesterday and haven't had time to read this 
thread properly, but it's a subject I've been considering (for obvious 
reasons). I'll marshal my thoughts on the matter over the next few days.

John
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:23:08 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Escorts and Area Point Defense (High Guard, long)

Walt Smith wrote:
>Escorts and Area Point Defense

<SNIP>

>Comments welcome.

Walt,

Are you quietly beavering away on High Guard 3rd Edition? I really like
this stuff - combined with the recent posts on logistics (and possibly with
some minor mods bringing back 10 dt bays, sticking in a fusion drive
option, removing the artificial limit on drive accel and relating the
hardpoint limit to configuration) this is taking HG were I would like to
see it.

Very nice, and simple, set of rules.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:20:40 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Ihatei Motivations (longish)

Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca> wrote:

>I think what scared alot of people away was the deadline: One to two
>months!  That's pretty damn tight in my book.  I know a lot of folks who
>have published gaming books and supplements (PLUG: Buy Heavy Gear!  It
>rocks! :-) and they say that's way too little time to do a decent job
>unless you're a full-time freelancer.

I know what you mean. In my case it would be bye bye social life until it
was delivered, which would have taken a negotiation with my wife.... well,
I offered the money I made on it to her for the Purple iMac she wants and
things eased up a bit.

Anyway, in discussions with one of the potential authors I agreed someone
else was better placed to do it than me. <sigh>

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:10:17 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Face-to-face Interactions (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance?)

Dear Folks -

One tertiary industry that we decided we would found on Tavonni is the
provision of conferences for sector-wide organisations - organisations that
span the Spinward Marches. We reasoned that the Marches are big, but there
is still enough need for F2F meetings that there should be a market for
these conferences - especially if you market yourself as providing a
central, neutral meeting place, with high-tech (TL 15) security and
defences, and fast J6 courier transport.

[Adventure Hook: PC's are hired by some company as personal bodyguards.]

That's why the "Welcome to Tavonni" marketing publication touts Tavonni as
"the centre of the Marches" - it means this figuratively (Piccadilly Circus
- - everyone comes here) as well as literally.

Of course, this is an ADVERTISING slogan, and we all know how true _they_
are...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:52:27 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: BITS and NATS

Rob Prior wrote:
>> I agree with the concept of a support organization (that's why I joined
> BITS). It's just that I'm _not_ a Yank, so your tagline eliminates me.
> (And probably those proud Texans, too, come to that.) Possibly you could
> widen the scope...?
> 
> (And I'm not offended - I saw the smiley, and I'm known you long enough to
> know that you are making a joke. But we _have_ recently seen some people
> assuming that US laws apply to the rest of the world, so I decided to
> respond.)

Ok, well the line worked in at least your case Rob (i.e. it got some one
to talk about the situation). Now, how can we expand the support here in
North America (not the US, not Canada, all of North America!). Is
something like NATS viable, either as a "chapter" of BITS or as a
stand-alone organization? Would people be willing to join, support such
an organization (one dedicated to supporting Traveller, say by running
games at conventions or even local stores)? What type of organization
should it be? 

Anyone want to talk about this or am I just wasting bandwidth? If so
tell me to drop it and I will.

- -- 
Mike Peters
travelleri@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:15:12 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

Steven Hudson wrote:
> 
>>   Vancouver in August? The Art Gallery's restaurant patio worked well
> enough last time - for anything much more substantial there's UBC.
> 
> 

I could arrange to be there in August. My Dad's birthday is at the end
of August, so I usually drive up to see him then.
- -- 
Erwin Fritz
UNIX/NT/LAN/DBA Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:13:08 -0000
From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Few things recently posted (actually related (but not really to trav))

OK first up regarding the playing of bagpipes during D-Day (and specifically
as depicted during 'The Longest Day'). There was only one single set of
bagpipes being played, and not by a Scottish unit. The unit actually playing
the bagpipes was under the command of Lord Lovart (which I think makes it
the commandos). The unit was certainly not entirely Scottish (Sean connery
was playing an Irishman and commented it takes an Irishman to play the pipes
properly). (Before anyone starts calling me a sad muppet for remembering
these obscure details the film was actually on tv this afternoon).

As for playing pipes over radio channels etc. this is actually done in one
of the novels set in the Battletech universe.

Regarding the MS takeover of FASA it was actually FASA Interactive which has
been bought which produced the more recent computer games and produced the
Battletech arcade games. FASA itself is still independent and has plans for
their game universes.

Paul

I suppose you want on Ob Trav now don't you? And I suppose the obvious
comparing MS to a megacorp would be a cop out wouldn't it? OK Going back to
the kilt arguments what strange/obscure additions to dress uniform do
certain imperial units have?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:18:16 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Grav Focus Lasers

Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

> If, on the other hand,
> the grav focus is a pulse travelling along with the laser pulse, it only
> has to be continuously bending it very gently,s o you can get by with
> fields of a G or so - within known Traveller capabilities. Plus it allows
> for cool sound effects.
> 

Plus, it makes training excercises about as close to the real thing as you can
get. Turn off the lasers and just use the grav focus. Put accelerometers about
the hull to register 'hits' and you'ld probably have quite realistic training.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:14:36 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)

>On a related note, how would you describe the Aslan aesthetic sense, in
>words? Do you envision them as having a unified cultural sense, or as
having
>a more diverse set of aesthetics (i.e. abstract expressionism v.
>neo-classicism, etc.)


IMTU, Aslan military equipment, combat vehicles, and other male dominated
stuff is all _highly_ artistic. Scientific equipment and stuff designed to
be used by females tends to be much more workmanlike.

It's not that Aslan women don't like or appreciate art, they just aren't
overwhelmed by the need to have everything in sight decorated and touched
up.

Even imperialized Aslan would tend to decorate their own weapons with little
aesthetic touches, IMHO.

I hadn't really thought long and hard on the differing _styles_ of Aslan
art, but I don't doubt that such a thing might be the case. Perhaps each
clan might have a certain aesthetic vision that is compatible with( but not
exactly like) the visions of other clans. It's a start.


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:17:25 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: BITS and NATS

> Now, how can we expand the support here in
>North America (not the US, not Canada, all of North America!). Is
>something like NATS viable, either as a "chapter" of BITS or as a
>stand-alone organization? Would people be willing to join, support such
>an organization (one dedicated to supporting Traveller, say by running
>games at conventions or even local stores)? What type of organization
>should it be?


A loose confederation, as opposed to Imperial rule ;^)

>Anyone want to talk about this or am I just wasting bandwidth? If so
>tell me to drop it and I will.


No problem, I'm highly interested in this line of reasoning. If we can
manage to squeeze out a few books (ala BITS) Traveller would only be the
better for it!


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:51:06 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Grav Focus Lasers

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
> 
> > If, on the other hand,
> > the grav focus is a pulse travelling along with the laser pulse, it only
> > has to be continuously bending it very gently,s o you can get by with
> > fields of a G or so - within known Traveller capabilities. Plus it allows
> > for cool sound effects.
> >
> 
> Plus, it makes training excercises about as close to the real thing as you can
> get. Turn off the lasers and just use the grav focus. Put accelerometers about
> the hull to register 'hits' and you'ld probably have quite realistic training.

Sort of like shooting "water slugs", eh?

Water Slug-  A shy aquatic creature which the Los Angeles is personally
hunting to extinction.  [Source:  USS Los Angeles (SSN688) Official
Dictionary, as posted on sci.military.naval]

- -- 
- ------
|    |  AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:03:09 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?

Oh boy.  Another 'helpful' comment from Clif.

The guy asked for comments and thoughts.
What part of that don't you understand?

Actually, don't answer that.

Bloo



Clif wrote:

[some unconstructive, ill-tempered comments designed only to generate hostility]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:05:07 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Pipes at Normandy

Clif wrote:

> Why not show me(cut and paste) the whole history of the Scots landing at
> Normandy and show me that there is NO mention of pipes being used, instead
> of ASSUMING that a movie based on the landing at Normandy (much of it was
> lifted in "Saving Private Ryan" if they weren't both based on the same
> primary source) is total B.S.?
>
> I would think that would be the smarter thing to do, unless of course, you
> were being an ass and trying to get a rise out of me.

Prooving a negative is rarely the smartest thing to do.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:10:59 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: BITS and NATS

Chris Seamans wrote:

> >Anyone want to talk about this or am I just wasting bandwidth? If so
> >tell me to drop it and I will.
>
> No problem, I'm highly interested in this line of reasoning. If we can
> manage to squeeze out a few books (ala BITS) Traveller would only be the
> better for it!

I think the advantage (and I may have missed some posts here) would be
that NATS (or whatever) as a partner with BITS would allow for joint
creation of
products (which actually isn't a problem now), but more importantly,
joint publication and distribution.  Not sure how it would impact the
BITS/SJG
deal that is pending.

I think its vital that they be related organizations both to avoid working
at
cross purposes, as well as to cross-polinate ideas and reach critical
mass on developing products.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:47:53 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)

Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:
<Snipped>
 >Would an Aslan
> designer take this into account, and, for example, build a vehicle that is
> less streamlined than a human one based only on aesthetic principal? Or
> would they be satisfied with just an Aslan-style paint job and grillwork?
> 
Actually I think just the opposite. THe Rebellion source book and
several other source show art work depicting the Aslan ships as highly
streamlined, more like clusters of teardrop shapes. This indicates to me
a bent toward the aesthetic. I've always pictured the Aslan as having
more "hand worked" equipment than your average Imperial would. Artwork
showing the ornate staffs carried by some Aslan, etc., are probably
highly customized weapons. This would seem to fall in line with the
"pride" of male Aslan, kind of an effort to "show-off". 

As Chris said in another post, the females probably tend more toward
"business-like" equipment. They are probably still more ornate and
individual than a factory produced Imperial item for the same use.

> On a related note, how would you describe the Aslan aesthetic sense, in
> words? Do you envision them as having a unified cultural sense, or as having
> a more diverse set of aesthetics (i.e. abstract expressionism v.
> neo-classicism, etc.)

I would believe that each clan has some differences within a general
racial preference. Kind of like the differences seen in Celtic artwork
through areas of Europe. Cross fertilization would make them similar but
close examinations would show up subtle differences.

- -- 
Mike Peters
travelleri@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:01:44 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?

And I did.  They were sent before your killjoy posts.

What part of that don't YOU understand?

- --Clif

- -----Original Message-----
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?


>Oh boy.  Another 'helpful' comment from Clif.
>
>The guy asked for comments and thoughts.
>What part of that don't you understand?
>
>Actually, don't answer that.
>
>Bloo
>
>
>
>Clif wrote:
>
>[some unconstructive, ill-tempered comments designed only to generate
hostility]
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1404
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 10 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1405



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Pipes at Normandy
Suggestion
Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?
Re: Aslan equipment 
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392 
Re: sector information request
Clif...
Re: TravellerCon
Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)
Re: Pipes at Normandy 
ADM: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.
Re: Aslan equipment 
Re: Aslan equipment
Re: NATS (was: BITS and NATS)
What the heck is going on here lately?
Aslan Aesthetics
Civilized behavior
[BITS] BITS Website updated
Re: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.
Re: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.
Re: Ihatei Motivations (longish)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:04:21 -0500
From: "Clif" <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Pipes at Normandy

If you can quote a widely recognized authority on Normandy and there is no
mention of bagpipes in connection with Scots or Irish, then it is pretty
safe to conclude that they weren't there...

...but the fact they were depicted in the movie as being there should make
you wonder what ARSE they pulled that out of...

But that's just the academic way of looking at it.  If you're just trying to
be a shit to a guy you don't know, then you're simply going to be an ass
without checking the source, eh?

- --Clif

- -----Original Message-----
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pipes at Normandy


>
>
>Clif wrote:
>
>> Why not show me(cut and paste) the whole history of the Scots landing at
>> Normandy and show me that there is NO mention of pipes being used,
instead
>> of ASSUMING that a movie based on the landing at Normandy (much of it was
>> lifted in "Saving Private Ryan" if they weren't both based on the same
>> primary source) is total B.S.?
>>
>> I would think that would be the smarter thing to do, unless of course,
you
>> were being an ass and trying to get a rise out of me.
>
>Prooving a negative is rarely the smartest thing to do.
>
>Bloo
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:29:03 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Suggestion

I don't believe that comments like this are appropriate.  Is there any way
to remove the offender from the list?


- -----Original Message-----
From: Clif <brclif@digital.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?


>
>>Could you please, please generate a real-life E-Mail system where Clif
>>can play in his own way, on his own? ;-)
>>
>>Sorry, Clif, just trying to inject a little humour!
>>
>>Derrick Jones
>
>
>No problem.  Ribbing is one thing.  Chronic dickheads are another.
>
>--Clif
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:31:08 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?

Are these personal attacks really necessary?


- -----Original Message-----
From: Clif <brclif@digital.net>
Subject: Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?


>And I did.  They were sent before your killjoy posts.
>
>What part of that don't YOU understand?
>
>--Clif

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:30:10 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment 

"Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> writes:
>ObTrav: From a design standpoint, a lot of Aslan equipment as depicted
>seems
>to me to be less than efficient. Are they a race that places aesthetics
>higher than functionality?

Not higher than functionality, but more important than in contemporary
NorAm.

Think Swedish design philosophy, where looks and aesthetics are considered
during product design instead of being tacked on afterwards. (Not that
Aslan equipment _looks_ Swedish, but the philosophy is similar.)

So, their ACRs are just as good as Imperial ones, but more decorated. The
fluting wouldn't interfere with functionality. 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:14:27 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392 

> This one's nice for the impies, if it does sound a bit "evil" to my 20th
> century ears! ;^)

Heh.  My character in Eris' game once called a Vargr 'grandson of an ape!!', 
in Vargr.

<grin>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:03:44 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: sector information request

> From: Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
> Subject: Re: sector information request
> 
> Oops, shouldn't have sent this to the list.  I wasn't thinking.  Sorry.

NP...  I found it quite informative, myself...  Thank you for your
mistake...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:24:02 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Clif...

	I have found out Clif's ISP...  It is "Florida Online"
http://www.digital.net/ at 1129 US Highway 1, South-Rockledge, Florida
32780...  Their phone number is 407-635-8888 or 800-676-2599..  So I say we
give them a call or a message bout Clif...  

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist & Old Gaming Fart
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:06:31 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon

> From: Allen Shock <ashock@gte.net>
> Subject: TravellerCon
> 
> For at least the first one, might I suggest the best place for a
> TravellerCon would be the birthplace of Traveller itself,
Bloomington-Normal
> Illinois? I've been there (even seen the original GDW offices); it's a
nice
> town, has some nice game shops, Illinois State University, and would be
> appropriate.

I agree, it would be the best place to hold it...  Yes, I have seen the
original GDW offices...  I bought my first copy of the LBBs there...  From
a nice pair of guys by the name of Loren & Marc...  *weg*

Then we could vist the homes of PP & JG...  In my hometown of Decatur,
IL...

> Allen

Legate Legion,  Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:46:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "T. Kurt Bond" <tkb@access.mountain.net>
Subject: Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)

Rick Elrod writes:
> There is an article in "The Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society, #9" 
> (yes from way back in 1981) called "Epithets of the Fifth Frontier War" 
> that is a hoot to read.  Allow me to exerpt:
> 
> Things to call the Zhodani:  "dirty, stinking zho", "psike".
> Things to call the Vargr:  "snarl", "barkers", "doggie".
> Things to call the Sword Worlders:  you only need omit the expected 
> title "Sir" from any dealings with them (no offense to Sword Worlder).
> Things to call the Imperials:  "deadhead" (lack of psionic training), 
> "pinkie" (lack of fur), "outworlder".

Also included in _GURPS: Traveller_ on page 73 in the sidebar.
(I just read that sidebar yesterday, and had an attack of deja-vu when
reading this TML post.)
- -- 
T. Kurt Bond, tkb@access.mountain.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:41:11 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Pipes at Normandy 

> If you can quote a widely recognized authority on Normandy and there is no
> mention of bagpipes in connection with Scots or Irish, then it is pretty
> safe to conclude that they weren't there...
> 
> ...but the fact they were depicted in the movie as being there should make
> you wonder what ARSE they pulled that out of...

<shrug>  Artistic license on the part of the cinematographer?  What rule is there that war flicks *MUST* be true to life?  There is none.

The corollary, of course, is that one should *not* rely on movies targetted for mainstream audiences as primary source material.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:21:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@TanSoft.COM>
Subject: ADM: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.

I have suspened Clif's posting privilages for 30 days.  His posts got
better for a while, but many were still marginal on a good net citizen
behavior.   After two unacknowledeged requests to cooporate, I took this
action.  Any one else who decides to insult others or use vulgar language
can at my descretion receive such suspensions.  After the suspension is over
if your behavior is not corrected, you will be removed from the list.  I'm
as nice a guy as comes around and I belive in peoples right to free speech
but not when that free speech is disturbing the peace.

I would like to see any threads involving real Earth history or current 
events be closed quickly.  Bagpipes in WW-II is has nothing to do with 
Traveller.  A military history list would be a better venue for that
discussion.  Off topic posts must not be allowed to perpetuate or this 
list stops serving its purpose . . . to discuss the Traveller role playing
game.

A "24 hour" policy was thrown about.  Its not what I would call a policy
but a part of self-discipline.  It is a very good concept.  It is like 
"count to 10 when you are mad" kind of thing.  If you wait 24 hours, and go
back and re-read it when you are less emotional you will most likely respond
in a more rational and less emotional manner.   I recommend that everyone 
follow this concept.  In face to face conversation, we are forced to civilty
by the fact that other person can bust our noses.  With e-mail and chat, you
are out of reach of the other guy and you have to take responsibility for 
your words that your bodies laws of self-preservation do in face to face
talks.

Ii thank the list for above average discipline level!!!!  Lets not let
these few incidents start a trend!!!

Thanks
Rob
- -- 
Rob Miracle
rwm@mpgn.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:46:42 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment 

> >ObTrav: From a design standpoint, a lot of Aslan equipment as depicted
> >seems
> >to me to be less than efficient. Are they a race that places aesthetics
> >higher than functionality?
> 
> Not higher than functionality, but more important than in contemporary
> NorAm.
> 
> Think Swedish design philosophy, where looks and aesthetics are considered
> during product design instead of being tacked on afterwards. (Not that
> Aslan equipment _looks_ Swedish, but the philosophy is similar.)
> 
> So, their ACRs are just as good as Imperial ones, but more decorated. The
> fluting wouldn't interfere with functionality. 

*OR*, the fluting and such would fit an Aslan hand better than the standard 
Imperial designs.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:01:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment

<Chris Seamans>
IMTU, Aslan military equipment, combat vehicles, and other male dominated
stuff is all _highly_ artistic. Scientific equipment and stuff designed to
be used by females tends to be much more workmanlike.
</Chris Seamans>

Ya, I definately like this idea of a gender dichotomy in artistic tastes.
Goes well with the overall theme of the Aslan.  

As for equipment being "ornate", one thing to consider is that intra-Aslan
battles are often highly-staged things with lots of rules and rituals, so
there's more room for ornate equipment.  For instance, if two Aslan lords
decide to settle their differences with a medeival-style battle on an open
field, cammo is not going to help anyone much and they might as well wear
their "pride colors"  to raise morale.  Also, if there's a rule against
sniping officers in your war, they can wear fancy uniforms.  Then you can
get into standard bearers, games of "steal the flag" and all sorts of cool
looking stuff.  You could even extend this to space battles:  "No shooting
the standard-bearer ships" means they can have outlandish color schemes
and broadcast powerful radio messages to inspire troops or taunt enemies
("Your mother was a Terran and your Father smelled of Uffleberries" :-). 

Mind you, they are smart fighters, so when they go up against Imperials
and (especially) Solomani, and they know rules won't necessarily be
respected, they're likely going to go with efficient and plain stuff. Even
in this case though, it doesn't decrease your combat efficiency much to
have a rifle that has some esthetic appeal.  Consider 19th century
weapons:  Usually nicely made, not cold and angular like today's weapons. 
They could have made them blocky and chunky, but since it didn't affect
performance one way or the other, they went with the aesthetic option.

Charles.

- -----
"Can anything truly meaningful be said in just a single line? Maybe, maybe
not." 
Charles Collin \\ McGill Psychology \\ http://www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/cvl
Ph: (514) 398-6151 \\ FAX: (514) 398-4896 \\  charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:41:27 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: NATS (was: BITS and NATS)

steve daniels wrote:
> 
>
> I think the advantage (and I may have missed some posts here) would be
> that NATS (or whatever) as a partner with BITS would allow for joint
> creation of
> products (which actually isn't a problem now), but more importantly,
> joint publication and distribution.  Not sure how it would impact the
> BITS/SJG
> deal that is pending.
> 
> I think its vital that they be related organizations both to avoid working
> at
> cross purposes, as well as to cross-polinate ideas and reach critical
> mass on developing products.
> 
> Bloo

Steve,

Understand, this has NOT been discussed with BITS! I agree that a close
relationship must be developed so that duplicate efforts etc. not become
a problem (but then again a bit of competiotion never hurts either!).
Other than a few knock off messages on other lists, this is my idea, for
which I take total blame. If there is enough interest then BITS could be
approached to see if some official relationship could be worked out.

In reference to books or other publications, much the same applies. I am
"wildcatting" on this. I have no idea if Marc would grant publishing
permissions. I'm assuming that if a NATS type organization could be
formed a portion of any dues would go to trying to secure such rights
from Marc, as well as (maybe?) compensation for some or all articles in
a news letter (e-zine format or paper?). I really like the IG idea of a
"Citizens of the Imperium", admittedly they screwed it up, but a fan
organization COULD provide some of the same things (with permission from
Marc!)

Let see, resources... I've said before my wife works in the graphic arts
field. I personally have contacts in printing, screen printing, and
embrodering (hats, jackets, etc.), I belive someone else on the list was
talking about this before as well. Bloo knows the law. Others have
skills and contacts. I really don't see how some type of organization
with hats, tee shirts or jackets moving around a game convention
COULDN'T create some type of interest! From what I've seen there are
people on this list from all over North America (I DO know about those
outside of NA! I'm somewhat narrowing the scope for this converation,
and do NOT mean to slight or insult those people, Please accept my
appology in advance!)

Then there are store front games. With enough interest from a creative
group like this list a couple of easy "Con-type" advertures run in a
game or book storemight get us all some of that "new blood" we here so
much about. Who knows may be some of those card players might get
interested?

- -- 
Mike Peters
travelleri@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:23:49 EST
From: Diespamer@aol.com
Subject: What the heck is going on here lately?

Greetings All:

I generally only download TML about once a week. So imagine my suprise when I
downloaded my messages, and was skimming through them...and finding things
spiraling down further and further, until the tone of the messages were things
like:

"The howl is in a LASER, jerk-off! "

Now, folks, is this really necessary?

Let's (first off) try to stick to the topic at hand. The topic at hand is
Traveller, in it's various forms. If you want to talk about Texas leaving the
US, fine, make it relevant. If you want to talk about religion, fine, but make
it relevant.

OTHERWISE TAKE IT OFF THE LIST!

This is a list about Traveller. Some of this pay for our online time. And I,
for one, am getting pretty sick and tired of having to edit out all this non
relevant crap.

Second, can we try to attain a level of civility on this list? Think of these
people as your friends. Would you call your friend a "jerk-off" (or worse, and
there has been some wosrse of late)? Even if you can't think of them as your
friends, think of them as colleagues, colleagues in the vast Traveller
collective.

And if you can't even make that stretch, try this. If you were in the room
with these people and you were discussing something as mundane as a game,
would you call them a jerk-off to their face?

Folks, it's a game. As serious as I take it (and I've been playing with this
stuff since 1977), I have never--never--gotten so angry over a game to call
somebody some of the names that have been thrown on this list.

So, please. If you'd like to argue, take it off the list. If you'd like to
discuss US government conspiracies, please take it off the list. If you like
to bash religions, or politics, or Bill Clinton, or Newt Gingrich, or Prince
Charles, or WHOEVER. Take it off the list. If you'd like to bash one list
member TAKE IT OFF THE LIST!

Now, could we please get back to idle speculation as to when Marc will get T5
published?

Thank you.

Fred Kiesche
(Diespamer@aol.com)
(Traveller Since 1977)
(Father Since 1998)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:57:11 -0800
From: Rob Dean <rsdean@erols.com>
Subject: Aslan Aesthetics

Just as a point for discussion, I don't thnk that Aslan males, as warriors,
would value aesthetics over function to the point that their weapons didn't
work.  So, for something like a gun, I wouldn't expect to see a lot of hooks
and points that would tend to catch on things, but I would expect to see
damascus steel barrels, elaborately inlaid stocks, ornately wrought trigger
guards (think Japanese tsuba), and so forth.

Rob Dean
rsdean@erols.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:38:30 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Civilized behavior

Clif:

    In the past month, I've seen you preach about subjects that are well
off-topic and respond with sarcastic insults to the intelligence of
those who disagree with you. Now you're starting to answer suggestions that
you observe the rules of civilized discourse and that your own behavior is
to largely to blame for any hostility you may feel from listmembers with
obscenities.
    If you have something intelligent to say about Traveller,
science, science-fiction, role-playing, or games, say it.
Politely.  Otherwise, don't.  My sentiments are with the growing
body of listmembers who are inviting you to either shape up or
ship out.

[I apologize to any offended by this me-too off-topic post. 
I've finally said my piece and it's off my chest now]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:39:38 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [BITS] BITS Website updated

BITS (British Isle Traveller Support)

The BITS website http://www.bits.org.uk/ has been updated:

*New! 750 kb Acrobat file produced by Rob Prior. The GT Starship Compendium
- - a large collection of starships designed for use by GURPS referees and
players. They were produced using Rob's forthcoming software, GT Shipyard
which will be available for the Mac and Windows. We're proud to share the
hosting of this material with _Freelance Traveller_.

*Updated! The Travelling page - details of more conventions (a number in
Scotland) with BITS contact details.

Dom Mooney (BITS Webmaster)

Contact: bits@bits.org.uk
- ---------------
Traveller is a Registered Trademark of FarFuture Enterprises (c)1977 to 1998
GURPS is a trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.
All rights reserved.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:49:49 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.

> From: Rob Miracle <rwm@TanSoft.COM>
> Subject: ADM: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.
> 
> I have suspened Clif's posting privilages for 30 days.  His posts got
> better for a while, but many were still marginal on a good net citizen
> behavior.   After two unacknowledeged requests to cooporate, I took this
> action.  Any one else who decides to insult others or use vulgar language
> can at my descretion receive such suspensions.  After the suspension is
over
> if your behavior is not corrected, you will be removed from the list. 
I'm
> as nice a guy as comes around and I belive in peoples right to free
speech
> but not when that free speech is disturbing the peace.

Thank you Rob, but it seems as if he needed this about a few weeks ago... 
Btw, what will you do if he does this again?  Will it be another 30 day
suspension, or will you kick him off the list?

FYI...  	I have found out Clif's ISP...  It is "Florida Online"
http://www.digital.net/ at 1129 US Highway 1, South-Rockledge, Florida
32780...  Their phone number is 407-635-8888 or 800-676-2599...

> I would like to see any threads involving real Earth history or current 
> events be closed quickly.  Bagpipes in WW-II is has nothing to do with 
> Traveller.  A military history list would be a better venue for that
> discussion.  Off topic posts must not be allowed to perpetuate or this 
> list stops serving its purpose . . . to discuss the Traveller role
playing
> game.

Ah, but I have a counter argument here...  As many units in Traveller have
roots in units currently around, that may be ObTrav...

ObTrav:  What about adding speakers to a suit of BattleDress & using that
to send out taped music when on the march or during a parade?  Or would
that be a bad idea?

<snip-snip>

> Ii thank the list for above average discipline level!!!!  Lets not let
> these few incidents start a trend!!!

OMG, we were good?  I'm going to have to return to my normal level of
acting...  *weg*  Just kidding...

> Thanks
> Rob

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:49:49 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.

> From: Rob Miracle <rwm@TanSoft.COM>
> Subject: ADM: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.
> 
> I have suspened Clif's posting privilages for 30 days.  His posts got
> better for a while, but many were still marginal on a good net citizen
> behavior.   After two unacknowledeged requests to cooporate, I took this
> action.  Any one else who decides to insult others or use vulgar language
> can at my descretion receive such suspensions.  After the suspension is
over
> if your behavior is not corrected, you will be removed from the list. 
I'm
> as nice a guy as comes around and I belive in peoples right to free
speech
> but not when that free speech is disturbing the peace.

Thank you Rob, but it seems as if he needed this about a few weeks ago... 
Btw, what will you do if he does this again?  Will it be another 30 day
suspension, or will you kick him off the list?

FYI...  	I have found out Clif's ISP...  It is "Florida Online"
http://www.digital.net/ at 1129 US Highway 1, South-Rockledge, Florida
32780...  Their phone number is 407-635-8888 or 800-676-2599...

> I would like to see any threads involving real Earth history or current 
> events be closed quickly.  Bagpipes in WW-II is has nothing to do with 
> Traveller.  A military history list would be a better venue for that
> discussion.  Off topic posts must not be allowed to perpetuate or this 
> list stops serving its purpose . . . to discuss the Traveller role
playing
> game.

Ah, but I have a counter argument here...  As many units in Traveller have
roots in units currently around, that may be ObTrav...

ObTrav:  What about adding speakers to a suit of BattleDress & using that
to send out taped music when on the march or during a parade?  Or would
that be a bad idea?

<snip-snip>

> Ii thank the list for above average discipline level!!!!  Lets not let
> these few incidents start a trend!!!

OMG, we were good?  I'm going to have to return to my normal level of
acting...  *weg*  Just kidding...

> Thanks
> Rob

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:10:53 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Ihatei Motivations (longish)

From: John Wood 
> With Loren's encouragement I submitted a proposal for just the Aslan 
> chapter, since I knew I wouldn't have time for both. If anybody fancies 
> doing just the K'Kree that would suit me... ;-)

Hmm.  How could the K'kree be integrated with Imperial settings?  They're a
long way away from the SM and Sollie Rim?

This, and the fact I didn't have my books around, I was busy and I'm
bone-idle was really why I didn't put my proposal in.

I could crank up my proposal again.  I'm not currently working on a
contract, so I've got a month or two I could spend on it full-time.  Anyone
with Really solid GURPS skills out there?  I'm still a little marginal.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1405
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 10 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1406



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Aslan equipment
Re: Ihatie Motivations
Re: In Defence of T4
Re: BITS and NATS
Re: [T98#1394] Comments, Please: Extending the UWP: Government
Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.
Re: Pipes at Normandy
Re: Magazine Capacities
Re: Military Vacations
Martian Metals Miniatures?
Re: T5, GT and SJG
Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)
Re: Few things recently posted (actually related (but not really to trav))
Re: NATS (was: BITS and NATS)
Battledress & Pipes (was: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.)
Re: Ihatie Motivations 
Re: NATS (was: BITS and NATS)
Re: Game systems and books as a GUIDELINE
Re: BITS and NATS
Re: Pipes at Normandy
Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.
Re: What the heck is going on here lately?
Re: NATS 
Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)
Re: BITS and NATS 
Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:06:07 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment

Rob Prior wrote:

<snipped>

> Not higher than functionality, but more important than in contemporary
> NorAm.
> 
<snipped again>

May be not higher functionality but perhaps a higher degree of
reliability? Greater care in the design and production generaly tends
that way. That's one of the reasons I picture them as being more
"hand-made" or at least hand modified.

- -- 
Mike Peters
travelleri@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:50:37 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Ihatie Motivations

Joe Webb wrote:

> In BtC the ihatie are described as 'inheriting nothing' and as worthless
> failures in the eyes of aslan society.  How does a bunch like this get
> ahold of 10,000 dton cruisers and transports full of families?

The distinction is, I think, that males that _remain_ landless are worthless
failures. Young males yet gone'a-viking' are probably not held in such contempt.

The reason that they are given these huge ships is a) their eventual
landholdings reflect on the prestige of their clan, and b) it get's them the
heck away from plotting to take the land back home. Remember the Ihatei was a
concept that the Aslan came up with to end the endless cycles of internecine
war and fratricide that characterized their pre-space history.


> Hans Rancke examined the motivations of an aslan clan leader.  Where do his
> priorities fall, rembering that his main motive is control of his land?
> Not only does a clan leader have to consider what other clan leaders are
> doing, but he has to consider what all those worthless ihatie are doing.
> Without something better to do, they are going to hang around the clan
> holdings, attempting to knock off the clan leader get his land.  It would
> be better if there are rival clans around, so that they go over there, but
> the THEIR ihatie will be sniffing around here.  What do you do?  You can't
> give your ihatie anything, it isn't fair to your first born.

Who said that? The firstborn get the landholdings and prestige. They
themselves might be more than willing to finance ihatei expeditions, just too
get their younger sibs off planet. 'Uneasy rests the head', and all that.

> I would think the transports follow later, only after word of a successful
> conquest reaches the home system(s). 

The other problem I have here is that everyone's assuming that the Aslan are
taking over via military conquests...They actually have a strong disincentive
not to...those ships become the way the next wave of Ihatei get shoved out of
the nest. 

I could very easily see Aslan Males seeing the (figurehead) post of 'Boss of
the Corporation' as a way of showing off his warrior skill...he gets to play
macho, 'Barbarians at the Gate' type corp games. Of course, the female
'underlings' make sure he doesn't have any _real_ business decision role,
merely the swaggering Boss show. He gets to go off an helm the corporate yacht
in the races, fly ballons around the world, rescue his employees from
religious fanatics or revolutionaries, that sort of thing.

(any similarity to real-world corporate executives is not quite coincidental ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:09:23 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: In Defence of T4

>From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
>Subject: In Defence of T4 (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance) Long
...
>The Traveller Adventure was a bad joke and Atlas of the Imperium was
>worse.  Yet each of these systems has it's steadfast proponents.  And
>with good reason.

  What was wrong with TTA? I've skimmed it, but not yet had the chance
to run it...

  FWIW, the Atlas of the Imperium had at least one advantage over FS - 
the info (what little there was) was correct, AFAIK, and it did you allow
you to design your own sub-sectors with stats of your devising, but with
system placement to support traffic in material to be developed later.

  I guess :>

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:14:53 EST
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: Re: BITS and NATS

In a message dated 1/10/99 6:15:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
travelleri@home.com writes:

<<  Is
 something like NATS viable, either as a "chapter" of BITS or as a
 stand-alone organization? Would people be willing to join, support such
 an organization (one dedicated to supporting Traveller, say by running
 games at conventions or even local stores)? What type of organization
 should it be? 
 
 Anyone want to talk about this or am I just wasting bandwidth? If so
 tell me to drop it and I will.
  >>
	I'd like to join and support a traveller organization like that.  There are
several places I could run Demo games, and I'd love to contribute material as
well.
		Dave "Dr Stodgicus" Nelson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:32:58 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: [T98#1394] Comments, Please: Extending the UWP: Government

On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 22:59:21 -0500, "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
wrote:

>Jeff Zeitlin said:

>>I'd appreciate it if you and others would try plugging in your
>>various favorite "planets of the week", and seeing if that does
>>turn up any inadequacies; I would find it astonishing (improbable
>>or unbelievable would be more accurate) if something I wrote off
>>the top of my head, without significant experimentation or
>>planning, actually proved not to be flawed in some way.

>Sure thing.

>I was thinking about this, and there might be a minor grey area with the
>system that you may or may not want to address: Perhaps you could add a
>qualifier that describes how happy the citizens are, on average? Maybe just
>a simple 1 to 10 scale (er, 1 to A scale) or something like that, with 1
>being an extreme dystopia and A being a an extreme utopia. Granted, most
>worlds would probably be in the middle of the scale, but still. It would add
>a good deal of extra flavor.

Hmmm... This is an interesting idea, but I don't think it's
really part of the _government_ profile.  If I ever work up one
for population, it would fit in well there.

I'm not sure, however, that the characterizations of the extremes
as *topi is really appropriate; they'll have some "objective"
connotations that may not really apply.

However, starting from the idea of "popular happiness", I may add
a section on "popular support" - something which is quite
appropriate for a government profile, and may be related to
happiness, but is in fact distinct.  Thanks for the idea.

>If DGP already covered this in one of their books, I apologize. I don't own
>any DGP books so I'm not sure.

DGP's _World_Builder's_Handbook_ was the starting point for my
series on Extending the UWP, but only in the same sense that
Piper's "Space Viking" was the starting point for Marc to develop
Traveller.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:24:27
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.

At 04:45 PM 1/10/99 -0500, you wrote:

>>"Bagpipes at four AM can be a
>>frightening thing, Colonel."

>But howls are not.

Nope.  Listening to coyotes howl in the distance is actually quite
entrancing.  Listening to bagpipes in your hotel room can make one confess
to anything.  I know.
- --

Doug Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:30:01
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Pipes at Normandy

At 04:22 PM 1/10/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Why not show me(cut and paste) the whole history of the Scots landing at
>Normandy and show me that there is NO mention of pipes being used, instead
>of ASSUMING that a movie based on the landing at Normandy (much of it was
>lifted in "Saving Private Ryan" if they weren't both based on the same
>primary source) is total B.S.?

I assume you are within travel distance of a library?  Fine.  Go look up a
book entitled "Six Armies in Normandy."  Author forgotten at this point.
It mentions Scot and canadian units bringing pipers in as early as the
second wave at Gold and Juno beaches.  For a better look at the war in
general, read Eisenhower's "Crusade in Europe".

As for your second point.. you do realize that both "The Longest Day" and
the opening sequence of "Saving Private Ryan" are both based on the actual
D-Day landings on 6 June 1944, right?  The landings on Omaha beach (as
portrayed in SPR) were by far the most difficult, with high bluffs all
around the landing area and well prepared German troops.  So of course both
movies draw from the same source, the actual events of what was termed by
many vets "the longest day" of the war.
- --

Doug Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:19:32 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Magazine Capacities

>From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>Subject: Re: Magazine Capacities
...
>My recruit course, a girl got herself slugged out for rotating to be
>_almost_ in line with the other cadets on the range whilst saying
>"Sarge, it didn't go off ?"

  A friend ran into something vaguely similar in his (prison guard) intake -
some dumb ox didn't grasp that the instructors took firearms handling utterly
seriously.

  Sadly, it turns out that Corrections _likes_ having a few big, dumb, brutes
pass each course - apparently they appreciate the intimidation value...

  ObTrav - what are the big, dumb, brutes _for_ :>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:34:38
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Military Vacations

At 02:36 PM 1/10/99 +0000, you wrote:

>I figure most enlisted and NCO's would get the above form of 
>vacation not counting shore leave.  Officers on the other hand may 
>actually get leave of absents for up to a year maybe more if there is 
>no major conflict, with the condition that they are on a recall 
>standing.

IMTU, Imperial Navy and Marine personnel can request leaves of abscense
from their unit if they need it.  These leaves can be quite lengthy, up to
several years to allow for necessary travel.  The SM will be expected to
report on what he did during his LOA, and will still be subject to Military
Law while on leave.

This is based on the Victorian preactise of keeping good officers with
wanderlust active by allowing them to go off and prospect for gold or
whatever.. by keeping them on the muster roles, it extended the Empire.

Imperial Army units are stationed on their homeworlds, so the leave issue
is handled by more conventional means.  FYI, soldiers in the modern US Army
get 30 days leave a year.
- --

Doug Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:20:00 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Martian Metals Miniatures?

  Does anyone out there have a photo of the Martian Metals Air/Raft
miniature? Mine is incomplete, and I'm wondering what sort of wind-
screen I'm supposed to improvise.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:54:45 EST
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5, GT and SJG

In a message dated 1/10/99 1:41:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:

<< 
 I do for one reason. I got tired of power players tweaking and maxing out
 their characters... >>

	I'm in total agreement.   there are so many power-munkins out there who have
to squeeze point based characters to the breaking point.   Other strange
things happen too.  The first time I ran Chivalry and Sorcery I had a boat
full of Viking PC's all of whom had the lowest possible Appearence scores.
Oh my god here comes Sigmund Fester-face andnhis deformed crew! 
	The Traveller character generation system with its randomization I think is
really a springboard for role-playing--since you have to work with what you
got, use your brains to make your guy useful.   Also you get PC motivations,
say you want an elite sniper, but get drafted into the navy,  your character
can have some serious baggage and an attitude problem  (failed hopes and
dreams, rather like real people).
	Besides,  generating a character is actually a game in and of itself!  It's
just plain fun.  It's more fun to have to "try" to make the character you
dream of rather than "calculate"  how to do it.
	Finally,  let's face it, if you get a real stinker of a character, it ain't
real hard to get one killed ;)

		Dave nelson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:18:16
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)

At 06:14 PM 1/10/99 -0500, you wrote:

>IMTU, Aslan military equipment, combat vehicles, and other male dominated
>stuff is all _highly_ artistic. Scientific equipment and stuff designed to
>be used by females tends to be much more workmanlike.
>
>It's not that Aslan women don't like or appreciate art, they just aren't
>overwhelmed by the need to have everything in sight decorated and touched
>up.

My Ghu.  Dyke females, and interior decorator males.  How do they reproduce?

I now have an entirely new way to play the Aslan, based on every waiter in
San Francisco...
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|  Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net  |
|       http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|--------------------------------------------|
| "Oscar Wilde only wishes he was this gay!" |
|                          -Mike, MST3K      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:18:22
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Few things recently posted (actually related (but not really to trav))

At 11:13 PM 1/10/99 -0000, you wrote:

>As for playing pipes over radio channels etc. this is actually done in one
>of the novels set in the Battletech universe.

The Northwind Highlanders.  The tactic appears in "Highlander Gambit" by
Blaine Lee Pardoe, and "Warrior: Riposte" by William H. Keith

>I suppose you want on Ob Trav now don't you? And I suppose the obvious
>comparing MS to a megacorp would be a cop out wouldn't it? OK Going back to
>the kilt arguments what strange/obscure additions to dress uniform do
>certain imperial units have?

IMTU, the Marines wear maroon berets as a node to their oldest antecedents,
the 82nd Airborne.  All marines have a field beret that the stuff into a
carrying pouch and change into as soon as the DZ is secure enough to allow
removing ther helmet.  Marine mess-dress does include a kilt.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:22:05 EST
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: Re: NATS (was: BITS and NATS)

In a message dated 1/10/99 8:03:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
travelleri@home.com writes:

<< Then there are store front games. With enough interest from a creative
 group like this list a couple of easy "Con-type" advertures run in a
 game or book storemight get us all some of that "new blood" we here so
 much about. Who knows may be some of those card players might get
 interested? >>

		I'm ready willing and able to do my part with that!	
				Dave Nelson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:48:43 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Battledress & Pipes (was: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.)

>ObTrav:  What about adding speakers to a suit of BattleDress & using that
>to send out taped music when on the march or during a parade?  Or would
>that be a bad idea?

Back when AHL was released, my group realized that battleaxes and
battledress were the best way of capturign a starship. (Great penetration,
and no nasty equipment damage when you miss!)

So naturally the Scottish-descended units sported Kevlar kilts, claymores,
and had pipe music playing through loudspeakers. Sort of a "surrender now
or we let slip the Scots of war" kind of threat :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:13:58 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Ihatie Motivations 

> Who said that? The firstborn get the landholdings and prestige. They
> themselves might be more than willing to finance ihatei expeditions, just too
> get their younger sibs off planet. 'Uneasy rests the head', and all that.

Especially since, as soon as they get land of their own, the ihatei could then 
found their own clans.  Aslan society is just as much about how the clans get 
along with each other as how the Aslans themselves get along with each other.  
Your little brother going out and forming his own clan can give you a boost, 
especially if you helped him get it started.  Aslans are *not* stupid, nor are 
they prisoners of their biology.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:00:12 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: NATS (was: BITS and NATS)

Michael Peters wrote:

[snip]

Thanks for spelling that out for me.

- --
Bloo
Resounding Technology
Creators of RogerWilco
http://www.resounding.com/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:02:24 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Game systems and books as a GUIDELINE

... in the game system, as we make workarounds for them.  If
>> something doesn't suit us then we change it, or if something is not
>> complete or missing altogether, then we add it.
>> 
><and again>
>
>Eris, 
>
>This guy has potential heretic written all over him! Better get the 
word
>to him before the Templers reach his door with the (hush) comfy chair!
>;*>
>
>-- 
>Mike Peters


Rick,
I tried to warn you. These people don't play. I saw a black helicopter 
circling my neighborhood last night...

The Traveller Inquisition is out there.
I believe it...

Roger

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:24:27 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: BITS and NATS

>Possibly because not all North Americans are Yanks? (Even though most
>polls show that our neighbours south of te border have only a hazy idea
>that Canada is a separate country - let alone their largest trading
>partner.)


SO, Canada is REAL?

tv

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:13:05 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Pipes at Normandy

"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:

> The landings on Omaha beach (as
> portrayed in SPR) were by far the most difficult, with high bluffs all
> around the landing area and well prepared German troops.

Doug's reminded me of something, and it will get to ob.trav. quickly.
Just after I saw SPR, I saw some newly found or restored color
film footage of this attack.  Stunning, of course, as you'd expect.
Surprising was how similar the real thing and the Spielberg thing were.
(Except for Spielberg's washing out of the colors, and some of the
montage points - and other points I will save for the film criticism
discussion group in my head).  If you looked at portions of both,
without knowing which is which, and scratch Spielbergs up only a little,
you'd think the real thing was faked.

Ob. Trav.: Sometime ago, there was a thread that discussed
TL15 infantry and armor techniques.  What I remember is someone
asking something along the lines of what sound does the plasma cannon
on a grav tank make?  This was a great thread and some of the pictures
in my head won't go away.  In fact, when I saw that one dramatic explosion
atop a Baghdad building a couple of weeks ago, I thought about that thread.

I know a couple of relevant works are in progress in this general area,
but I'd love to see some development of tactics, techniques, and
above and beyond all, things that add this kind of color.  Ideally some
artwork, too.  Is anyone running a military/merc or heavy weapons
campaign?

- --
Bloo
Resounding Technology
Creators of RogerWilco
http://www.resounding.com/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:16:38 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.

"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:

> At 04:45 PM 1/10/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >>"Bagpipes at four AM can be a
> >>frightening thing, Colonel."
>
> >But howls are not.
>
> Nope.  Listening to coyotes howl in the distance is actually quite
> entrancing.  Listening to bagpipes in your hotel room can make one confess
> to anything.  I know.

LOL.  At my college, I was often awoken by our school marching band.
They were 5 pipers and 3 drummers.  I love the pipes.  But you're right about
the coyotes.

Ob. Trav.  Sound as a weapon.  IIRC, there are certain low frequencies that
can cause nausea and even strong psychological reactions, i.e, paralyzing
fear.
Would these be used in a TL 15 Third Imperium?  If only to keep Vargr in
line with whistles?  ;-)

- --
Bloo
Resounding Technology
Creators of RogerWilco
http://www.resounding.com/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:07:22 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: What the heck is going on here lately?

diespamer said:

>Let's (first off) try to stick to the topic at hand. The topic at hand is
>Traveller, in it's various forms. If you want to talk about Texas leaving
the
>US, fine, make it relevant. If you want to talk about religion, fine, but
make
>it relevant.


Actually, the Texas leaving the U.S. thread was 100% percent relevant to
Traveller. Somebody made a Traveller related post concerning their version
of future history and asked for comments. That discussion was made up of
those comments.


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:57:47 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: NATS 

I guess, at this point, you could say I'm trolling. I'm willing to do
the leg work and try to contact the other parties involved at BITS, and,
obviously, Marc. I'm just trying to see what type of responce is out
there. 

Is there enough interest to try and put this type of thing together?

steve daniels wrote:
> 
> Michael Peters wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Thanks for spelling that out for me.
> 
> --
> Bloo
> Resounding Technology
> Creators of RogerWilco
> http://www.resounding.com/

- -- 
Mike Peters
travelleri@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:53:33 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)

> My Ghu.  Dyke females, and interior decorator males.  How do they
reproduce?

Easy, they go to the clinic & well, you know...  As you do live in
SanFran...  *weg*

> I now have an entirely new way to play the Aslan, based on every waiter
in
> San Francisco...

Nope, I see the men more like the men of the Thebian Sacrade(sp) Band...

> |  Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net  |
> |       http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:17:09 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: BITS and NATS 

> 
> >Possibly because not all North Americans are Yanks? (Even though most
> >polls show that our neighbours south of te border have only a hazy idea
> >that Canada is a separate country - let alone their largest trading
> >partner.)
> 
> 
> SO, Canada is REAL?

Only if it's not already declared INTEGER.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:25:23 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army. 

> Ob. Trav.  Sound as a weapon.  IIRC, there are certain low frequencies that
> can cause nausea and even strong psychological reactions, i.e, paralyzing
> fear.
> Would these be used in a TL 15 Third Imperium?  If only to keep Vargr in
> line with whistles?  ;-)

IMTU, sonics are installed on embassy walls facing out in case of protests against the owning governments.  Helps keep down the lawsuits when things get messy.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1406
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 10 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1407



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Miscellaneous Responses
Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)
Re: BITS and NATS 
Re: Scout Brew 
Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.
Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.
Re: Santiago
Re: ADM: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.
Re: Is Traveller a Science Fiction Roleplaying Game ?
Re: Inverse lasers and reality
Re: Vargr, in combat.
Re: "Six Armies in Normandy"
Re: In Defence of T4
Battle Dress= Music Box??
Re: In Defence of T4
Rick:Age of players/insults
Re: Players
Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army. 
Re: Martian Metals Miniatures?
Re: T5, GT and SJG
Re: BITS and NATS
Re: Pipes at Normandy
Re: Age of TML members.
Special Effects (was re: Pipes at Normandy)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:33:07 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Miscellaneous Responses

At 07:32 10-1-99 -0800, Rob Dean wrote:
>The more-or-less full story of Egbert and the investigation into his
disappearance
>can be found in a book called _The Dungeonmaster_ written by the private
investigator
>brought in to the case by his parents.  I can't think of the guy's name at
the moment,

William C Dear.


James

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:35:04 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)

>My Ghu.  Dyke females, and interior decorator males.  How do they
reproduce?


I wouldn't exactly say that.

It's even a little more psychotic than that.

(From  the holovid "Aslan & Harriet")

Aslan: "Honey, I'm home!"
Harriet: "How was your day on the front?"
Aslan: "Great, I fought with extreme honor and we won the day!"
Harriet: "Wonderful. I'm glad to hear that"
Aslan: "Wait until you check out what I did with our Clan's G-Carrier!"
Harriet: "It'll have to wait until later, I'm trying to work out how we're
going to pay that honorable band of yours!"

>I now have an entirely new way to play the Aslan, based on every waiter in
>San Francisco...


I imagine the male Aslan as a warped combo of muscle-car freaks and interior
decorators,  myself.

And the female Aslan as more along the line of no-nonsense accountants.


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:42:47 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: BITS and NATS 

>> SO, Canada is REAL?
>
>Only if it's not already declared INTEGER.
>
>Keven


ROFLAO
If only my wife the math teacher could really appreciate that like I do.

TV

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:45:04 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Scout Brew 

can 
>> provide all the Scout Brew we can drink.  :P
>
>Will it have real Scouts in it?
>
>[Said in by best Wednesday Adams voice.]
>
>Did you ever wonder if Scout brew requires the use of (unspecified) 
body
>fluids and/or tisues in the recepie? [Naturally the best Scout brew
>would incorporate parts from Scouts of multiple species.] With 
Traveller
>Tech levels they can always grow the blood, or fingers, or whatever, in
>the base medical lab.  Maybe Scout brew brewing attempts should require
>access to a Med Lab, or dead Scouts?  [Logically this would explain 
what
>Vilani are doing in the otherwise culturally Solomanish IISS, it is
>theri only way of continuing their cannibal past.]
>
>Perhaps the reason the Imperium does not go in for nanotechnology is
>because their had a nanotech disaster in the past when Scouts [Imperial
>or Sylean, depending on when you want to set the incident] used
>nanotecnology to make Scout Brew with and the results were, shall we
>say, less than a complete success....
>
>
Well Wednesday, I have to disappoint you. If I remember the article 
correctly, the Scout's brew was invented by bartenders who were tired of 
listening to the Imperial Scouts brag about all the different places 
they visited and the exotic (read:dangerous, intense, wonderfully mind 
numbing) drinks they had tasted. One bartender somewhere decided he had 
enough and mixed about a dozen of the most powerful liquors behind the 
bar, (and added a dash of the old internal combustion engine fuel his 
car used) and named it Scout's brew.
I have to admit it worked. The drink is quite famous...

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:40:23 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.

>Ob. Trav.  Sound as a weapon.  IIRC, there are certain low frequencies that
>can cause nausea and even strong psychological reactions, i.e, paralyzing
>fear.
>Would these be used in a TL 15 Third Imperium?  If only to keep Vargr in
>line with whistles?  ;-)


Aren't the Europeans currently working on something like this for use in
riot control? I'm not sure where I heard this, but it was a sound "weapon"
that would make victims sick to the stomach.

The Nazis had some research into the subject, although they never got
anything workable. Survival Research Labs made sound cannons from the
research and got sued as a result when they used them at an event in
California. As it turns out, it wasn't to damaging to people watching in the
crowd, but people on a nearby highway, in their cars, were deafened (some
permanently).


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
"What is your one purpose in life?" - Dolittle
"To explode, of course!" - Thermostellar Device #20
     - John Carpenter's "Dark Star"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:35:53 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.

The biggest problem I see with sonics is that there is little that can
be done to make them truely directional. Even using cones to direct the
sound waves will allow conciderable collateral effects. 

Not to say it can't be effective. If the user(s) are protected first the
sonics could work. Say Impy Marines in battledress, with integral
protection vs. unprotected protesters. 

Still I don't think it would be effective on a battlefield. Both sides
would "armor" against it as a matter of course.

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > Ob. Trav.  Sound as a weapon.  IIRC, there are certain low frequencies that
> > can cause nausea and even strong psychological reactions, i.e, paralyzing
> > fear.
> > Would these be used in a TL 15 Third Imperium?  If only to keep Vargr in
> > line with whistles?  ;-)
> 
> IMTU, sonics are installed on embassy walls facing out in case of protests against the owning governments.  Helps keep down the lawsuits when things get messy.
> 
> Keven
> 
> tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                                      Science-Fiction Adventure
>                                                      In Reavers' Deep

- -- 
Mike Peters
travelleri@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:31:38 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Santiago

Thad Coons wrote:

> I just finished a reread of Mike Resnick's "Santiago", and thought it might
> make interesting fodder for a Traveller adventure. OK, so it's a few years
> old, but the characters are colorful.

Read the rest of his books set in the inner frontier, they all make greatsource
materials.

Evyn...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:08:55 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: ADM: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.

Dear Folks -

Rob said:
> I have suspened Clif's posting privilages for 30 days.  His posts got
> better for a while, but many were still marginal on a good net citizen

Thank you, Rob. Not that he didn't come up with an interesting thread or
two, but I think I can speak for a few of us and say my ears were getting
overloaded with all the noise.

LL said:
>ObTrav:  What about adding speakers to a suit of BattleDress & using that
>to send out taped music when on the march or during a parade?  Or would
>that be a bad idea?

Our resident Droyne, Ervmisbe, added an audio holocrystal recording of "The
Flight of the Valkyries" to his Very Silly Battlesuit, "Eric". Does this
help?

Finally, Dom said:
>*Updated! The Travelling page - details of more conventions (a number in
>Scotland) with BITS contact details.

Gee maybe you DO arrive in Scotland when you jump from within a jumping
starship!  ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:04:29 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <AFBetts@salcom.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Is Traveller a Science Fiction Roleplaying Game ?

>This is my opinion:
>Traveller is a role playing game that the referee can do anythign he 
>wants to.Some people get stuck on rules: this can't happen because of 
>this, that or whatever. I have had a two players who have left my games 
>because I didn't folow the standardized rules set forth in the 
>Traveller-Bible-rulebook.
>
>IMTU, as a referee, I do whatever I want to the players. My entire goal 
>as a referee is for everyone to have a really enjoyable session, and my 
>players never have a complaint. (Well, at least I haven't heard any, and 
>one of them is on this mailing list, so I might get some unexpected 
>feedback here.)
>:)
>Remember the most important things are:
>1. Whatever decisions you make as a referee, stay consistant. Make sure 
>if the players know something is considered a constant, then stick to 
>it. This can be real science (which is easier to remember than alot of 
>pseudo-science), and totally off the wall "magical technology".
>
>2. The entire goal is to have fun. As a gamemaster, you are a host. You 
>create the realm for the players to enjoy. Just make sure to try to tune 
>into the desires of the players and mold your designs and adventures 
>into what they tend to like. It will often stretch your imagination as 
>well.
>
>If you want a gizmo or a gadget in your game, then make one up. Try to 
>use hard science when you can, but there is nothing wrong with 
>experimental equipment that noone understands.
>
>The primary rule of all RPG's is to have fun.
>
Well said, that man!

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:02:47 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <AFBetts@salcom.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Inverse lasers and reality

- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd A. Zircher <zirto@bdol10.indepth.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 5:31 AM
Subject: Re: Inverse lasers and reality


>Anson Betts wrote:
>>
>> How will inducing a current on a conductor passing through a
>> magnetic field create audio?  You'd need one hua of a big
>> magnetic field to reach across 1km, let alone 30000km (1 hex
>> range)
>
>Actually, I was thinking of inducing a current in the leads
>to existing speakers on the target ship.  I figure that it
>would take a lot less power to vibrate some speakers than
>to rattle a whole ship.
>
>As to magnetic fields and their ranges, is there any
>precedent for powerful manipulation of forces?  Perhaps
>a modified grav-plate can serve to channel/focus a
>truly heinous magnetic field that could be used.
>
>Anyway, it sounds more plausible than the previous attempt.
>(Thinking back to the Traveller time-line, were ram-scoop
>type spacecraft ever created?)
>--
>Todd Zircher (aka TAZ)
>
It definitely sounds more plausible, maybe if there was a way to modulate
the magnetic field, taking into account the frequency of the AC used to
create it... Hmmm.

Possibly you could create a stealth drone thing that could get close enough
to induce the message. But probably it would be easier just to bung a radio
on the drone.

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:54:09 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Vargr, in combat.

At 11:20 10-1-99 EST, Rick Elrod wrote:
>Remember how in World War II, the Germans designed their fighters to 
>emit some sort of "whine" that had a very demoralizing effect on the 
>victims of their attacks?

Never heard of this being done with fighters, but the Ju-87 dive bomber had
the "Jericho Trump" - a whistle (built into the wheel spats, I believe)
that made an ungodly screech when the plane went into its dive.


James

- ----------     ----------     ----------     ----------
HEAVEN is where all the police are English, the mechanics
German, the lovers Greek, and the cooks French, and it's
all run by the Swiss.  HELL is where all the police are
German, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, and the
cooks English, and it's all run by the Greeks.
                      (from a t-shirt I bought in Greece)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:20:31 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: "Six Armies in Normandy"

>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
>Subject: Re: Pipes at Normandy
...
>I assume you are within travel distance of a library?  Fine.  Go look up a
>book entitled "Six Armies in Normandy."  Author forgotten at this point.

  Keegan.

>It mentions Scot and canadian units bringing pipers in as early as the
>second wave at Gold and Juno beaches.  For a better look at the war in
>general, read Eisenhower's "Crusade in Europe".

  Or Keegans "The Second World War" :)

...
>many vets "the longest day" of the war.

  As an interesting aside I read a comment today trying to analyze the
response of the Soviet public to their adventure in Afghanistan; it was
along the lines that the "15,000 men killed in ten years was roughly
what they lost in the worst _one hour_ at Kursk" - possibly a factoid
but also reasonable for the opening bombardment and break-ins into their
first defense lines.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:25:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: In Defence of T4

- ---Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca> wrote:
> What was wrong with TTA? I've skimmed it, but not yet had the chance
> to run it...

I misspoke, sorry.  I was thinking of SMC, which was a rehash.  It's
value is that it put's the stuff in one volume, but not much new
ground gets covered.  The name implied (to me) a NEW campaign.  I was
miffed with it.  But I got over that long ago.  These days I refer to
it often.  Go figure.



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4 ?tg ge- 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:50:40 +0100
From: Volker Greimann <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Battle Dress= Music Box??

At 18:49 10.01.99 -0700, you wrote:

>Ah, but I have a counter argument here...  As many units in Traveller have
>roots in units currently around, that may be ObTrav...
>
>ObTrav:  What about adding speakers to a suit of BattleDress & using that
>to send out taped music when on the march or during a parade?  Or would
>that be a bad idea?
I like it.
Maybe it would play Wagners Ride of the Valkries when charging into battle ;)

Volker
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------
Volker A. Greimann --- http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 ---
greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:53:59 +0100
From: Volker Greimann <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: In Defence of T4

>>The Traveller Adventure was a bad joke and Atlas of the Imperium was
>>worse.  Yet each of these systems has it's steadfast proponents.  And
>>with good reason.
>
Whats wrong with the Traveller Adventure? I love that thing (so much i own
two)!
It was a good read and should be fun to play. It had lots of interesting
bits of information on most of the planet in Aramis...
In fact if my plans for a permanent Traveller Game become fact, thats what
ill probably run first. 
Volker
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------
Volker A. Greimann --- http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 ---
greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:28:00 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Rick:Age of players/insults

>life  :)  having started at age 17.
>
>In response to the "role playing in high school" question.  My school 
>only had a policy concerning "live action" roleplaying.  They did NOT 
>like the Assassin game we used to run, but they didn't mind us playing 
>D&D or Traveller.
>
>
>
>Rick
>
Rick,
I've been playing Traveller longer than I have been able to drive...

For everyone else: I'm 34

The best insult I can remember is "Darwinian Deadend"
<g>

Roger Barr



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:30:43 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Players

 I also know it's
>concidered a bit rude to seek games/players throught the list. 

>Mike Peters


Oops! I was going to do just that. Anyone got a place for me to post 
such an offer?
Roger Barr
>
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:26:29 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army. 

> > IMTU, sonics are installed on embassy walls facing out in case of protests against the owning governments.  Helps keep down the lawsuits when things get messy.
> 
> The biggest problem I see with sonics is that there is little that can
> be done to make them truely directional. Even using cones to direct the
> sound waves will allow conciderable collateral effects. 
> 
> Not to say it can't be effective. If the user(s) are protected first the
> sonics could work. Say Impy Marines in battledress, with integral
> protection vs. unprotected protesters. 
> 
> Still I don't think it would be effective on a battlefield. Both sides
> would "armor" against it as a matter of course.

Last time I looked, embassy courtyards weren't battlefields, and rioting mobs 
weren't too well armoured.  <grin>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:41:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Miniatures?

The original on mine was thin polystyrene that rose one third above
the side supports.  Mine fell off a half dozen times, then disappeared
completely.  By rights it should have a complete bubble, but . . .


- ---Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca> wrote:
>
>   Does anyone out there have a photo of the Martian Metals Air/Raft
> miniature? Mine is incomplete, and I'm wondering what sort of wind-
> screen I'm supposed to improvise.



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4 ?tg ge- 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 

_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:44:50 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: T5, GT and SJG

>I'm definitely your polar opposite, then.  I'd rather decide the
>character for the player to use (tournament style) than let them make
>their own.  Allowing players to generate the character under my direct
>supervision would be second choice.  I have a habit of giving the most
>experienced players the most challenging characters, while giving the
>newbies someone straight-forward and powerful, like a ship
>owner/captain or a burly marine.  It makes for a fun game when a
>powerful newbie is attempting rash actions while the well-rounded
>players run around trying to keep the adventure from falling down
>around their ears.  Bull in a china shop, and all that.  It counters
>typecasting and court-holding, too.
>
>

I like both. As a referee, I have given characters to players to 
challenge them, or in some cases, I have allowed players to create 
personal ones with only a veto option on my end. My players and I have a 
really strong trust arrangement: I trust they will bring a reasonable 
character to the game, and they trust if I hand them one, that they will 
be reasonable comfortable in playing it. I don't even care if the player 
simply chooses stats and skills instead of rolling them on a table.
(Call me a heretic, I so blatantly confess)
:)
I have only had one player that really abused this rule. He ws one fo 
the two I mentioned before. (Rules Lawyer)
Roger Barr

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:52:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: BITS and NATS

- ---Thomas Vickers <redroach@sprynet.com> wrote:
> 
> >Possibly because not all North Americans are Yanks? (Even though most
> >polls show that our neighbours south of te border have only a hazy idea
> >that Canada is a separate country - let alone their largest trading
> >partner.)
> 
> SO, Canada is REAL?

Ayuh.  My official status is "displaced by foreign competition" under
NAFTA due to a supposed glut of cheap Hydro-Quebec power.  I'm
eligible for up to two years of retraining and extended unemployment
benefits.  Funny, I thought my plant shut down because of
mismanagement ;->



==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
IMTU 0601 tc++ tm !tn t4 ?tg ge- 3i pi ta+ he+ 
http://come.to/traveller

Visit the "Subsidized Merchant" - http://surf.to/traveller-trader 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:48:05 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <AFBetts@salcom.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Pipes at Normandy

>Ob. Trav.: Sometime ago, there was a thread that discussed
>TL15 infantry and armor techniques.  What I remember is someone
>asking something along the lines of what sound does the plasma cannon
>on a grav tank make?  This was a great thread and some of the pictures
>in my head won't go away.  In fact, when I saw that one dramatic explosion
>atop a Baghdad building a couple of weeks ago, I thought about that thread.
>
>I know a couple of relevant works are in progress in this general area,
>but I'd love to see some development of tactics, techniques, and
>above and beyond all, things that add this kind of color.  Ideally some
>artwork, too.  Is anyone running a military/merc or heavy weapons
>campaign?
>
>--
>Bloo
>Resounding Technology
>Creators of RogerWilco
>http://www.resounding.com/
>
Er, yeah. I'm running a Space Marine campaign, but at Tech 12 without Jump
Drives (use Stutterwarp instead), battledress (Flack Jacket and Helm is it),
Heavy energy weapons, contra-grav and a whole lot of other Traveller bits. I
guess I just like the system...

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:14:54 +1300
From: "Anson Betts" <AFBetts@salcom.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Age of TML members.

> Stuart Ferris said:
>
>Out of interest, how many people on this mailing list are below 25 years of
>age?


Personally I'm 27 going on 16 :)

Cheers,
 Anson.

Oook Oook

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:55:08 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Special Effects (was re: Pipes at Normandy)

Steve Daniels wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ob. Trav.: Sometime ago, there was a thread that discussed
TL15 infantry and armor techniques.  What I remember is someone
asking something along the lines of what sound does the plasma cannon
on a grav tank make?  This was a great thread and some of the pictures
in my head won't go away.  In fact, when I saw that one dramatic explosion
atop a Baghdad building a couple of weeks ago, I thought about that thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That was me what started that thread. PC's in the campaigns I have
run never even touched a Grav Tank or hit the firing stud on a Fusion
Z-Gun - we simply didn't run heavy weapon Mercenary campaigns.
There was a time or two when what the PC's did caused the hard rain
of Imperial attention to fall on some baddie - and I got some beautiful
ideas from the list on what the "special effects" of such activities
should look like. Fusion guns. Ortillery kinetic strikes. Big budget
special effects!

The _Striker_ tables tell me how many dice of damage a weapon does.
I wanted to know what it looked like over the shoulder - as in, "What
does a PC see as he looks over his shoulder while running like H*ll
away from ground zero?"

If new people to the list are interested, send me private email and I'll
forward a summary of "special effects" ideas that cropped up in the
thread.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1407
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.comTraveller-digest      Monday, January 11 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1408



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: What the heck is going on here lately?
Re: Military Vacations
Re: Vargr, in combat.
re: Escorts and Area Point Defense
Re: Battledress & Pipes (was: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.)
Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)
Re: TravellerCon
Re: Ihatei Motivations (longish)
Re: Magazine Capacities
Re: Military Vacations
Re: Players
Re: BITS and NATS
Re: Missing Digests?
Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)
Re: Age of TML members.
Re: BITS and NATS
Re: Appeal
Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army. 
Bagpipes
Re: ADM: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.
Re: Scout Brew 
Re: In Defence of T4

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:54:45 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: What the heck is going on here lately?

>Folks, it's a game. As serious as I take it (and I've been playing with 
this
>stuff since 1977), I have never--never--gotten so angry over a game to 
call
>somebody some of the names that have been thrown on this list.
>
. Take it off the list. If you'd like to bash one list
>member TAKE IT OFF THE LIST!
>
>Now, could we please get back to idle speculation as to when Marc will 
get T5
>published?
>
>Thank you.
>
>Fred Kiesche
>(Diespamer@aol.com)
>(Traveller Since 1977)
>(Father Since 1998)
>
Fred.
Well said.
Cogratulations, I became a father in 1998 as well.
I hope my son grows up to play T5, T6, T8, or whatever.
Roger Barr


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:55:06 +0000
From: "Tim" <tim@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Military Vacations

Doug wrote

IMTU, Imperial Navy and Marine personnel can request leaves of
abscense from their unit if they need it.  These leaves can be quite
lengthy, up to several years to allow for necessary travel.  The SM
will be expected to report on what he did during his LOA, and will
still be subject to Military Law while on leave.

This is based on the Victorian preactise of keeping good officers with
wanderlust active by allowing them to go off and prospect for gold or
whatever.. by keeping them on the muster roles, it extended the
Empire.

Imperial Army units are stationed on their homeworlds, so the leave
issue is handled by more conventional means.  FYI, soldiers in the
modern US Army get 30 days leave a year. --


and  said Black Ice

OTOH, I wouldn't expect the level of personnel turbulence one finds
in, for instance, the US military.  Personnel would tend to enlist,
serve, and retire in the same unit in the Imperial military.  Thus,
there would be less need to travel to take leave, as your immediate
family is probably living nearby.

Imperial Navy vessels, and Imperial Marine units, would probably
operate in a fashion generally similar to the way USN and USMC units
do today. They would spend several months on a cruise, then return for
some time to their home port.  The home port time would be used for
such things as military schools, ship refits, and leave.  In addition,
shore leave at various ports of call would be an option.

> I figure most enlisted and NCO's would get the above form of
> vacation not counting shore leave.  Officers on the other hand may
> actually get leave of absents for up to a year maybe more if there
> is no major conflict, with the condition that they are on a recall
> standing.
> 
> Anybody have any suggestions or thoughts

I wouldn't think that a policy of putting officers on leave for
extended periods of time would be a good one.  Taking the officers out
of their units in such a fashion would hurt unit cohesion (it's harder
to develop teamwork when the person who is expected to lead a unit
isn't there, and won't be there until the balloon goes up).

One way you can involve active duty military characters in adventures
is to assign them to duties outside regular line units.  For instance,
personnel assigned as advisors to reserve or planetary force units
would likely have more time available to adventure, as might
recruiters and military/naval attaches.

<<snip sig>>
- -

I guess this comes down to how you view the Imperail Navy.  Is it Age 
of Sail(steam) or is World War Two and later.  I think both me and 
Doug see it as Age of Sail or Victorian in Nature.   I like Age of 
Sail so I guess Ill go with that.  Chalk one up for Brits in Space :)

Speaking of Brits in Space, for people who would like to read 
something not from a Yank point of view, try Rick Shelley and any of 
his books.  I believe he is English, and does a great job of writing. 
His best books are based on a British Empire in Space with 
Marine and Naval forces in war.


Tim Reynolds
tim@premier.net 
www.premier.net/~tim 
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable 
sexual disease.  It made you unsuitable for 
a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.]

Terry Pratchett 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:49:56 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Vargr, in combat.

>Forget it, guy, the established, entrenched majority has decided to 
poo-poo
>the idea simply because *I* presented it.
>
>--Clif
>

>>Just a thought.
>>


Clif,
I'd use it sometimes by my Vargr corsairs as intimidation. Works fine 
for me...

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:50:28 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Escorts and Area Point Defense

Dom Mooney wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Walt,

Are you quietly beavering away on High Guard 3rd Edition? 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
One rule at a time, one rule at a time...<G>

FF&S (QSDS?) for making the starships, RPG rules for fighting
them one-on-one, High Guard for siccing fleets of them on each other.

Dom again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<snip>
Very nice, and simple, set of rules.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Simple was my objective - though "Very nice" was a good bonus, thank
you.

While I appreciate the level of detail we get from current Traveller ship
design systems - especially with the nice spreadsheet work available
on the net - I'm interested in developing some straightforward fleet action
and operation rules.  Logistics. Alternative fighter tactics. Command
and control. Intelligence. 

Perhaps there will be a place in T5 for this material, if it can make
the jump from CT to T5 without losing it's focus on simplicity.

Back to my original post : do any of the space weapons science
gearheads on the list see anything broken with the concept of allowing 
Escorts and Area Point Defense? 

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:39:35 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Battledress & Pipes (was: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.)

> From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
> Subject: Battledress & Pipes (was: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other
issues.)
> 
> >ObTrav:  What about adding speakers to a suit of BattleDress & using
that
> >to send out taped music when on the march or during a parade?  Or would
> >that be a bad idea?
> 
> Back when AHL was released, my group realized that battleaxes and
> battledress were the best way of capturign a starship. (Great
penetration,
> and no nasty equipment damage when you miss!)

Seems as if you have been reading the Lensmens books...  *weg*  Were the
Battleaxes called "Spaceaxes"?

> So naturally the Scottish-descended units sported Kevlar kilts,
claymores,
> and had pipe music playing through loudspeakers. Sort of a "surrender now
> or we let slip the Scots of war" kind of threat :-)

Of course, but did they use "Spaceaxes" or "Spaceswords"?

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:48:46 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)

> From: Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net>
> Subject: Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)

<Snip some funny stuff>

> I imagine the male Aslan as a warped combo of muscle-car freaks and
interior
> decorators,  myself.

Ah, Leather-Boys...  

 
> And the female Aslan as more along the line of no-nonsense accountants.

Ah, I see...  *weg*

> Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:02:39 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: TravellerCon

I'd vote for LA or southern California.  For convenience, if nothing else.  ;
)   All sorts of sights you want to see (and many you probably don't <g>) and
all kinds of terrain and things to do within an hours drive, tops.  Amusement
parks, mountains, skiing, snow, oceans, beaches (yes clean ones, too).  LOL.
God, I love California. 

Barring that, I'd say Gen Con then Normal (in order of preference).  

> ObTrav: In the New Era, are there any tour agencies that take
> curiousity seekers to ruined centers of technology as if they were the
> dino exhibit at the Peabody Museum?

Maybe in a Pocket Empire near you.  But as of c1200, on the Solomani end
anyways, the 3I isn't very popular, due to numerous factors.  To name a few,
the Solomani wars and any lingering propaganda, and the devastation of the
Rebellion, Collapse, and Lucan's madness (Virus, if for none of the other
reasons).  Course, there are alot of remnants (even Remnant organizations in
the Reformation Coalition) who might be able to appeal to a growing, more
rational civilization.  On the Regency end, most of the good stuff is trying
to be smuggled past the Quarantine.

Maybe more towards c1300, when the Reformation Coalition spans 3 or 4 sectors.
: )


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:54:34 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Ihatei Motivations (longish)

Alan Bradley wrote:

> Hmm.  How could the K'kree be integrated with Imperial settings?

Barbque.?.

> They're a
> long way away from the SM and Sollie Rim?

Yea like years.

How 'bouts a secret Death Squads bent on foiling the expasionist
Aslan.

> This, and the fact I didn't have my books around, I was busy and I'm
> bone-idle was really why I didn't put my proposal in.
>
> I could crank up my proposal again.  I'm not currently working on a
> contract, so I've got a month or two I could spend on it full-time.  Anyone
> with Really solid GURPS skills out there?

Get to it boy, the play test crowd will smooth out any bumps. Or if yougot any
question ya can float em by me.

Evyn...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:09:24 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Magazine Capacities

Steven Hudson wrote:

>   Sadly, it turns out that Corrections _likes_ having a few big, dumb, brutes
> pass each course - apparently they appreciate the intimidation value...

No, they want someone  who will fill the door when they do
cell extraction's. Also it costs the same to train a little guy as much as
it cost to train a big guy, and the big guy turns out to be more effective.

Remember this though, both the guards and the prisoners spend their days
in jail.

Ob Trav>
The Gash held how many?

Evyn...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:19:14 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: Military Vacations

I have been thinking about a Traveller campaign and started to wonder
how to get military characters into an adventure without starting a
war.  The problem is how long are military leaves.  I know that in
most militaries you build up vacation time (about 2weeks to a month)
over a year.  But in Traveller thats hardly enough time to jump back
and forth to another system let alone a long trip.


Well Canadian military leave works like this. You get 24 day leave per year.
You do NOT have to take all of it. Any un-used level carries over.
So if you've been in 5 yr.. you can have up to 120 day to work with. Plus
when filling out your leave you only need 5 day per week (why burn your
leave for a weekend that you normally get off any way). So in the above 5
yr.. term you get 14 week off (plus any stat. hol.). Also if you have done
any extended duty away from you base (at sea in the navy/peace keeping for
the army/air force) you get post deployment leave (2 more days per month of
the deployment) over and above you normal leave. It start to add up real
quick.

Hope this helps you.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:30:37 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Players

> I also know it's
>>concidered a bit rude to seek games/players throught the list.
>
>>Mike Peters
>
>
>Oops! I was going to do just that. Anyone got a place for me to post
>such an offer?
>Roger Barr


For now you can use the following address, although if anyone else has an
active players list, please post it:

http://www.pil.net/~semo

Follow the instructions and maybe we'll get a big ol' group of people on
there so _all_ Traveller players out there can find Face to Face or PBEM
games to play in! Good luck!

The page is a temporary page, and the address will be for a bigger and
cooler website, but for now I wanted to give something back :^)


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
Looking for other Traveller players in your area?
Looking to run a PBEM game? Check out:
http://www.pil.net/~semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:02:40 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: BITS and NATS

As far as NATS?  It has been formerly known as GDW, DGP, FASA, IG and a few
others.  Currently, SJG could probably get a reputable charter, no? ; )

I'd be all for supporting an independant NATS that had mostly system neutral
(or at least translatable) mechanics.  Especially with its own set of 101
books.  : )


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:02:42 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Missing Digests?

Did anyone else not get digests # 1383, 1388, 1391, and 1393 via email?  I was
out of town for several days and found these were missing.  I've gotten them
via mpgn's ftp archives (and I do miss the www. pages, Mr Miracle), but am
curious if this was a list burp of some kind and noone else got them, either? 

Or if it has to do with my suspicions regarding the
conspira^M^M^M^M^M^M^M^M^M^M^M^M^M@!$#$%@

Excuse me, what was I saying?  I'm sure it was nothing.  I feel much better,
now.


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:15:15 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> I now have an entirely new way to play the Aslan, based on every waiter in
> San Francisco...

Quick, How do you say Fabulous is Aslan?

Evyn...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:58:50 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Age of TML members.

> From: Anson Betts <AFBetts@salcom.co.nz>
> Subject: Re: Age of TML members.
> 
> >Out of interest, how many people on this mailing list are below 25 years
of
> >age?
> 
> Personally I'm 27 going on 16 :)

30 yo

> Cheers,
>  Anson.

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 05:29:24 +0100
From: Volker Greimann <greimann@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: BITS and NATS

At 20:24 10.01.99 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>Possibly because not all North Americans are Yanks? (Even though most
>>polls show that our neighbours south of te border have only a hazy idea
>>that Canada is a separate country - let alone their largest trading
>>partner.)
>
>
>SO, Canada is REAL?

Yep, 
at least i think it is, 
I mean, all i ever saw of it was Goose Bay, Labrador.

Waittaminnit, that could have been.....
Damn, now ill never know for sure!

Volker
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------
Volker A. Greimann --- http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 ---
greimann@geocities.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:02:33 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Appeal

> > At 02:30 PM 1/9/99 +0100, you wrote:
> >THIS is a TRAVELLER LIST, not a MOMMY, HE HIT ME FIRST-LIST.
> >
> >Sometimes i feel as if dealing with a bunch of adolescents here.
> >Volker
> > 
> I have to agree with Volker on this one. It should either stop or the list
> should be renamed the TBL - Traveller Bitch List.

I agree, as well.  Course one of my players once read a TML digest on my comp
and said the exact same thing.

Clif may or may not be many things, but he has made me (at least) laugh out
loud quite a few times.  His latest exploits, no exception.  There are others
just as bad.  They just sugar coat their shit flinging a bit better.  I'd
advise more tact, and to nix the blatantly personal attacks, as well as an ob
Trav, but it seems the only off topic things complained about have to do with
the USA or American holidays.  He shouldn't be removed without at least a
couple warnings and violations from the list admin, as others have been
playing the game with him.


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:47:59 -0600
From: "Clint Williams" <aremis@amaonline.com>
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army. 

- -----Original Message-----
From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@glasscity.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.


>> > IMTU, sonics are installed on embassy walls facing out in case of
protests against the owning governments.  Helps keep down the lawsuits when
things get messy.
>>
>> The biggest problem I see with sonics is that there is little that can
>> be done to make them truely directional. Even using cones to direct the
>> sound waves will allow conciderable collateral effects.
>>
>> Not to say it can't be effective. If the user(s) are protected first the
>> sonics could work. Say Impy Marines in battledress, with integral
>> protection vs. unprotected protesters.
>>
>> Still I don't think it would be effective on a battlefield. Both sides
>> would "armor" against it as a matter of course.
>
>Last time I looked, embassy courtyards weren't battlefields, and rioting
mobs
>weren't too well armoured.  <grin>
>
>Keven
>


True, but it does bring to mind the attack on Panama by U.S. forces to
capture Noriega.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:04:39 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Bagpipes

I seem to recall reading in a Real History Book (sorry, can't remember which
one or by whom) that the Cameron Highlanders were played ashore at D-Day by
Lord Lovat's personal piper, who was the first man ashore.

This puzzles me. I mean, yes, bagpipes make me want to bayonet someone, too
(have you noticed that they soube better far away?) but if the piper was at
the BACK, that'd surely make more sense... the troops would be out and
sprinting for Berlin as soon as the ramp went down, just the escape the
God-awful noise.....

Imagine being trapped in an LCA with incoming fire AND bagpipes.... isn't
there a convention against this?

OB TRAV: errrr.... obscure traditions make military units more colourful. If
they're only slightly inefficeient then they'll be allowed to continue for
the sake of esprit de corps (Look at the fuss over kilts when some of the
Higland regiments lost theirs).

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:45:43 -0800
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: ADM: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.

Rob Miracle wrote:

>   I'm
> as nice a guy as comes around and I belive in peoples right to free speech
> but not when that free speech is disturbing the peace.

Rob,

I just want to say, for the record, that you do a fine job running this list.
I've always felt comfortable here (even when I've gotten into the crud with
others in the past, like we all do).

I'm on other lists, both RPG related and non-RPG related, and I'll say that some
list administrators are a real pain in the butt and really detract from the
experience of being on the list.  There's one RPG list in particular that has an
administrator that is always bitching about something.  This person is too much
of a nit-picker for me, and I can tell that she is probably not a very happy
person in life.

But, I just want to give you a pat on the back and say that I wish some of the
other lists I'm on would run things the way you do.

Thanks for the good work,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:53:38 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Scout Brew 

> From: Roger Barr <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Scout Brew 
> 
> Well Wednesday, I have to disappoint you. If I remember the article 
> correctly, the Scout's brew was invented by bartenders who were tired of 
> listening to the Imperial Scouts brag about all the different places 
> they visited and the exotic (read:dangerous, intense, wonderfully mind 
> numbing) drinks they had tasted. One bartender somewhere decided he had 
> enough and mixed about a dozen of the most powerful liquors behind the 
> bar, (and added a dash of the old internal combustion engine fuel his 
> car used) and named it Scout's brew.
> I have to admit it worked. The drink is quite famous...

So what you are saying is that it is a wussy version of the "Hairy
Buffalow"?

The "Hairy Buffalow" is a drink in which one shot of every liquor behind
the bar is mixed with two shots of lighter fuild...  *weg*

But, then again, I knew that Scouts could not take what a MARINE could
take...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:02:37 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: In Defence of T4

> Now a few words about you - do you remember the basic set?  Were you
> able to open that box, take out those little black books and have some
> fun?  So what happened to you?  How come you can't be happy with less
> than a full bore, pre-arranged, fleshed out, infallible system?  You

The same thing can be said from TNE Deluxe, and w/ the full design system, and
a full sectors sector data and map (and character creation aids).  

> hide behind the excuse, "Times have changed, RPGs have advanced,
> Traveller has to compete or be left behind."  Poppycock, I say.  CT
> succeeded with me because it was simple and sensible compared to D&D. 

I hate to break this to you, but times *have* changed, and they continue to do
so.    Does *anyone* here think vanilla CT would sell today?  Especially
against the would-be T5's competitors, Alternity and Star Wars, Revised &
Expanded (leaving off many more numerous small press competitors)?    For that
matter, where is Traveller and where is D&D?  Where is GDW and where is TSR?
The dynamic is much much bigger, but in the end, D&D has grown and evolved
(and thrived) and Traveller is dead as (at least currently) an independantly
supported game.

G:T, u say?  I want to support what I think I might be able to use in my
campaigns. I've bought the first three books (even the core book, which I knew
from teh beginning to be pretty useless considering I don't like GURPS and
already have the Imperial Encyclopedia. A side note: Does anyone else think
the Ref's section (library data) should've been bigger?  At least the size of
the IEs?)  I don't know if i'll continue to do so.   So far, it's been very
little.  My Regency campaigning keeps getting pushed to the backburner, though
I find I don't yawn like I do when I read of the Santanocheev affair or the
Nth Frontier War (and have been happily surprised that G:Ts TNS entries don't
do the same)...  But so far, concerning G:T, I see nothing on the horizon
except mostly a rehash of what has already gone before.  BtC (impoved Spinward
Marches), Mercs & Far Trader?  (Book 4, Book 7).  Solomani Rim?  Aliens
Modules?  Is G:T going anywhere with the setting?  It seems to be (from the
TNS anyways and hints in BtC.  Sadly, not a sign in Zhos and Vargr), and i'll
be happy to support and maybe even actually game in it, if it will, but the
next question is: Anytime soon?  

Or is it just window dressing on the same old material?

> I could create anything, do anything, try anything.  And each GMs
> universe was so different that the game was totally new when played
> with a different group, yet the mechanics were the same.  In my mind
> Traveller was the first universal role play system.  And 2d6 is still
> the most powerful system because it has suspense and yet is instantly
> understood.  No one is ammune to that shiver that goes up your spine

Never played much D&D?  The '1' has teh same effect.  The '20' a positive.  In
TNE, it's reversed.  : )

Now, i'm not permanetly adjusted w/ TNE mechanics.  The game system isn't
perfect (though it's as close to that chimera as me and my gaming groups have
yet discovered).  I do think d20 allows a better curve than xd6.   But I was
quite... unimpressed... by T4s mechanics (indeed chose TNE over T4, even with
the explanation of Traveller's history in T4 explained).   If T5 is going to
do nothing but cater to the middle aged grognards who have clung to the game
of their youth, which seems to be nothing but a diminishing herd, i'll have NO
reason to support it.

My age?   I would appear to be one of the few 20 year olds so far, at about 2
weeks past 23.  There might be more, but IMO 20 year olds are far less likely
to lurk than the older ones.  Certainly an internet mailing list isn't
representative, but it's quite useful for comparisons against other rpgs and
their mailing lists, especially for ones as old as xD&D and Traveller.   A
survey (private?  with anonymous data posted on teh web somewhere?) of the
list would probably be quite interesting.


Gary

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1408
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.comTraveller-digest      Monday, January 11 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1409



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Age of TML members.
Re: Cultural Difference
Re: Military Vacations
[SEMITOPICAL] Re: In Defence of T4
RE: Military Vacations
Re: In Defence of T4
A Noticible Lack of Civility
Re: Military Vacations
RE: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?
Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.
Mass of starship components
Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)
Re: Bagpipes in todays modern army
Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1391
Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ?
Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)
Re: Military Vacations

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:00:17 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: Age of TML members.

>
>> Stuart Ferris said:
>>
>>Out of interest, how many people on this mailing list are below 25 years
of
>>age?
>


31 going on 4 (a 4 childhood is a grate thing)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:22:26
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Cultural Difference

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: Cross Culture
>
>I have a cultural question for the Australians on the TML.
>
>A friend of mine travelled from the USA to Australia (Sydney area
>I believe) some years ago, and one thing that struck her was how
>the average Australian response to any request seemed to be "No."
>

One of the defining features of Australian culture is we dont really have a
'service' culture.

In America, it is expected that people who sell you things will say 'Have a
nice day' and so on. Personally, it annoyed me when I was in America that
salespeople pretended they cared about me.

The defining statement is probably the reply to the stock Macdonalds
question of 'Do you want fries with that ?' which is of course 'If I wanted
fries I'd <obscentity> well ask for them.'. The reply to 'Have a nice day'
is of course 'Thank you, but I have other plans'.

<example of bank declining to give change deleted>

>Is this kind of response common in Australian culture, or was she getting
>some kind of different treatment because she was a tourist/outsider?

Australia is developing more of a 'service' culture, but it's still a
cultural difference.

>ObTrav: Thinking about all the little vagaries between how people do things 
>from planet to planet, and the misunderstandings this can lead to.

Not just cultures. For example, yesterday's Washington Post (Sunday the
ummm tenth) had an example about the slow decay of America's volunteer
urban fire brigades. Now, Australia has a system of professional urban fire
brigades, but the rural bushfire brigades are amateur volunteers (which
makes sense to me ... an urban brigade has to deal with stuff like chemical
fires). Now, in Australia, it is expected that the local council will fund
a fire brigade, but in a rural American town it would be assumed that this
would be done by volunteers (to haul this ob-Trav, I like the idea of the
Duke of Regina's Own Bush Fire Brigade ... His Grace provides the funds to
buy the equipment for the rural fire brigades on some poor world. I can see
some IISS or IN commander 'arranging' things so that there is spare
capacity on some military ship going to that world. His Grace would get
*very* upset if the local military tried to requisition the grav trucks and
grav-powered water bombers and use them to fight the insurgents).

An example that is close to my heart is sports facilities. I used to live
in Marrickville, a suburb of Sydney that was in the lowest 30% of median
incomes in the country, had about 70% of the population born outside
Australia. In the US, it would be a barrio.

Now, Marrickville Municipal Council covered about 70 000 people. One of the
local political issues was the local council declining to fund repairs to
the second 50 meter swimming pool in the municipality. The council either
funded or part-funded about fifteen football fields of various sorts, about
forty soccer fields, two tennis centers of about half a dozen courts each
(one with two grass courts), four turf cricket pitches (Petersham Oval
pulled double duty with baseball) and a golf course. Schools had additional
facilities that were not council-funded.

Remember, this is just Marrickville. Canterbury, South Sydney and Ashfield
councils could come up with a similar list, and that is only the
inner-western chunk of Sydney.

My wife is from Bremerton, a middle-class satellite city of Seattle in
Washington State. She cannot think of any council-funded sports facilities
in Bremerton.

The point is that Australians expect council-funded sports facilities to be
available, and that local teams should be able to rent these facilities off
the council for minimal cost. It is a public service that is expected, and
any council that sells off sports fields can expect to run into problems in
the next elections.

In the US, there isnt that expectation.

Now, to bring this ob-Trav, worlds are going to have radically different
expectations on what should and shouldnt be government funded, and how this
should be organised.

Health care is one obvious example, while airports are a less obvious one
('You want to use the starport ... our system is not showing you as a
stockholder'). Security is even better ('We Triaari are responsible for
this list of locations ... you say the guy shot you at Attapi Park ... I'm
sorry. The Billaamo are responsible for that Civic Zone ... are you paid up
?')

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:28:10
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Military Vacations

At 07:07 PM 10/01/99 -0500, you wrote:

>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>Subject: Re: Military Vacations
>
>Tim wrote:
>> 
>> I have been thinking about a Traveller campaign and started to wonder
>> how to get military characters into an adventure without starting a
>> war.  The problem is how long are military leaves.  I know that in
>> most militaries you build up vacation time (about 2weeks to a month)
>> over a year.  But in Traveller thats hardly enough time to jump back
>> and forth to another system let alone a long trip.
>> 

Dont forget the bit in Dumas' Three Musketeer's where the Commander puts
Our Heroes on extended leave so they can officially have Porthos get a rest
cure for his injury and thus go and do a private mission for Her Magesty in
a completely deniable fashion.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:58:14 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: [SEMITOPICAL] Re: In Defence of T4

>The same thing can be said from TNE Deluxe, and w/ the full design system,
and
>a full sectors sector data and map (and character creation aids).


TNE's FF&S was probably the most adaptable design system that Traveller has
ever had. If you wanted to make Star Trek style starships with different FTL
drives, you could do it. If you wanted to muck around with the technology
and reproduce nearly any sci-fi elements, you could do it. And the book's
commentary was informative and handled so even an armchair scientist like
myself could use it!

Probably the one book from any Traveller line that I used the most.

>I hate to break this to you, but times *have* changed, and they continue to
do
>so.    Does *anyone* here think vanilla CT would sell today?  Especially
>against the would-be T5's competitors, Alternity and Star Wars, Revised &
>Expanded (leaving off many more numerous small press competitors)?    .


Actually, for the moment, Star Wars is not much of a competitor to
Traveller. LucasFilm has revoked the Star Wars license from WEG, and they
are open to other negotiations at the moment. All of the majors have
released new sci-fi lines, each with a good deal of support. TSR's Alternity
is a major contender. White Wolf's Trinity is one to watch for especially,
IMHO, the books for this game are totally top-notch and relatively cheap
(one of the smaller ones, a handbook for Trinity's alien races costs a
whopping $5). SJG has put out their GURPS Traveller line.

That's all well and good, however, Last Unicorn Games is up and running as
the latest Trek license holders. LUG isn't a major player, and this wouldn't
be newsworthy _however_, they've got three important things going for them.
1.) It's a roleplaying game set in the universe of one of the most popular
science-fiction franchises, 2.) the system is _extremely_ simple and the
books are geared towards beginning roleplayers, 3.) they've got the backing
of a major distribution network: Simon & Schuster.

Some standard bookstores in my area carry AD&D, some carry Vampire, a couple
used to carry Star Wars, ALL of them carry Star Trek. These are plain-Jane
bookstores, and there's ST:TNG right up there with the sci-fi books.

I'm not even bringing the truly excellent spate of second and third string
sci-fi games into the picture here!

There's obviously a good deal of interest in "to the stars" style sci-fi
roleplaying at the moment. They are all extremely professional, and they are
all competing for the same market. Times have changed, the market is much
bigger than it used to be and there's alot more competition.

For the record, I'm not trying to spread doom and gloom for Traveller here.
I love Traveller, and I want it to succeed very much. Traveller's got to be
sleeker, meaner and better looking than ever to compete. The hobby is
completely different than it used to be, and there are companies with a good
deal of resources at their disposal.

>G:T, u say?  I want to support what I think I might be able to use in my
>campaigns. I've bought the first three books (even the core book, which I
knew
>from teh beginning to be pretty useless considering I don't like GURPS and
>already have the Imperial Encyclopedia. A side note: Does anyone else think
>the Ref's section (library data) should've been bigger?  At least the size
of
>the IEs?)  I don't know if i'll continue to do so.   So far, it's been very
>little.

You complain about G:T not doing anything new for the setting, and that's
fine. To a large extent I agree with you. However, keep one very important
fact in mind: There are no more copies of older Traveller materials that
will hit the market, period. Sure, the library data may not be useful to
owners of the Imperial Encyclopedia. Keep in mind, however, that the
Imperial Encyclopedia wasn't extremely useful to people with the CT Library
Data supplements. G:T has to woo new players to the fold, and you can't do
that by assuming that everyone has a copy of _any_ older Traveller
materials. These older materials, barring a miracle, are not coming back
into print anytime soon. I read the GURPS: Traveller discussion on Pyramid,
and I'm heartened to see people reading these library data entries for the
first time and asking questions about what's going on.


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
Looking for other Traveller players in your area?
Looking to run a PBEM game? Check out:
http://www.pil.net/~semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:48:09 +1000
From: "cjbrain" <cjbrain@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Military Vacations

I'm in the Australian Army, we accrue 20 days per year, on top of this, it
is possible to gain up to another 10 days field leave (1/10 days spent in
the field) and another 5 days extra recreational leave under some
circumstances. We are allowed to carry over leave for a two consecutive
years, as long as we have the permission of our Commanding Officer and a
valid reason (i.e. a period of study overseas etc.) We used to be entitled
to travelling time to our Next of Kin, which was not subtracted from our
leave credits. Perhaps in the Imperium, this may not be practical for
inter-planetary leave periods.
- ------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:11:53 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Military Vacations

Tim wrote:
>
> I have been thinking about a Traveller campaign and started to wonder
> how to get military characters into an adventure without starting a
> war.  The problem is how long are military leaves.  I know that in
> most militaries you build up vacation time (about 2weeks to a month)
> over a year.  But in Traveller thats hardly enough time to jump back
> and forth to another system let alone a long trip.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:22:06 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: In Defence of T4

Hello,
>From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
>Subject: Re: In Defence of T4
...
>I hate to break this to you, but times *have* changed, and they continue to do
>so.    Does *anyone* here think vanilla CT would sell today?  Especially

  The Traveller Book / TTA probably could, maybe with some colour/upgraded
B&W art in TTB. IMHO.

>against the would-be T5's competitors, Alternity and Star Wars, Revised &
>Expanded (leaving off many more numerous small press competitors)?    For that
>matter, where is Traveller and where is D&D?  Where is GDW and where is TSR?

  WEG is still living on the edge, and TSR has pined and been re-animated by
the Wicked Witch of the West (Coast). GDW closed in a dignified and orderly
fashion, which puts them ahead of those groups. It remains to be seen whether
Alternity will succeed on any basis other than sheer advertising power, which
didn't save any TSR products that come to mind.

...
>do the same)...  But so far, concerning G:T, I see nothing on the horizon
>except mostly a rehash of what has already gone before.  BtC (impoved Spinward
>Marches), Mercs & Far Trader?  (Book 4, Book 7).  Solomani Rim?  Aliens
...

  But seriously, you really think SJG won't pack a bit more info into what
will probably be 144-page large-format books than went into a 52-page LBB?
And that even before considering that these G:T sourcebooks shouldn't be
rules heavy - which is precisely what Books 4 & 7 were providing?

  As much as I like B:7, there's every indication that the average chapter
in GT: Far Trader will include more background info (B:7 did of course have
the entire rules section on expanded Merchant generation and play, as well)
than that entire LBB.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:41:41 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: A Noticible Lack of Civility

"Clif" <brclif@digital.net> wrote

> No problem.  Ribbing is one thing.  Chronic dickheads are another.

Pot.  Kettle.  Black.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:05:53 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Military Vacations

At 23:19 10-1-99 -0800, Wayne Ewart wrote:
>Well Canadian military leave works like this. You get 24 day leave per year.
>You do NOT have to take all of it. Any un-used level carries over.
>So if you've been in 5 yr.. you can have up to 120 day to work with. Plus
>when filling out your leave you only need 5 day per week (why burn your
>leave for a weekend that you normally get off any way). So in the above 5
>yr.. term you get 14 week off (plus any stat. hol.). Also if you have done
>any extended duty away from you base (at sea in the navy/peace keeping for
>the army/air force) you get post deployment leave (2 more days per month of
>the deployment) over and above you normal leave. It start to add up real
>quick.

Wow.  US Navy (and, I assume, other US military) leave accrues at 2.5 days
per month.  You can let it build up all you want, but on 1 October (the
beginning of the US government's fiscal year) you lose everything over 60
days - hence "use-it-or-lose-it" leave, taken in September to avoid losing
excess leave.  (One year I had to take 24 days!)  Exceptions are permitted
in the case of ships, aircraft squadrons, &c, which are deployed to
locations where taking leave would be difficult; this excess leave must be
used within two years, or it is lost.


James



Laird Alasdair mac Iain of Elderslie
Dun an Leomhain Bhig
Canton of Dragon's Aerie [southeastern CT]
Barony Beyond the Mountain  [northern & southeastern CT]
East Kingdom
- -------   -------   -------
Argent, a chevron cotised azure surmounted by a sword and in chief two
mullets sable

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:16:17 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: RE: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?

At 13:44 10-1-99 -0000, Jason Paul McCartan wrote:
>> And how badly does it hang when a player doesn't respond?
>
>It doesn't. If a player doesn't submit a turn for play - they're ignored.
>The main game engine runs through a queue of player turns processing turns
>in a particular order. If in this situation a player didn't respond, they'd
>simply still be left in the same position they were in, whilst the rest of
>the world moved on. Just like in real life.

So how long would a player have to respond?  A couple days?  A couple
hours?  Nothing like being in the middle of an important battle or other
event and then losing out because I have duty and can't get home to my
computer, or have to get under way for a few days....


James

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:20:39
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.

At 10:16 PM 1/10/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:

>Ob. Trav.  Sound as a weapon.  IIRC, there are certain low frequencies that
>can cause nausea and even strong psychological reactions, i.e, paralyzing
>fear.
>Would these be used in a TL 15 Third Imperium?  If only to keep Vargr in
>line with whistles?  ;-)

I use these ultra-low frequency devices as riot control equipment starting
at TL10.  A few sound trucks, and the mob is too disoriented to riot.
- --

Doug Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:41:17
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Mass of starship components

Sometime in the last few days, someone posted asking about the mass of
starship components.

There are 14 m3 per displacement ton.

Power plants mass 4 tons per m3 per dton at TL10-11, and 3t per dton at TL12.

Electronics mass 1 t per m3, except for computers, that mass 0.2 t per dton.

Weapon systems mass 1t per m3.

Armour generally masses about 10t per m3.

Cargo generally masses about 1t per m3.

Fuel masses 1t per 14 m3.

I hope this helps.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:37:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)

In mail you write:

>>IYTU, what is the worst thing you can call someone? That is, worst
>>**without** using profanity?  If you wanted to get someone so mad
> that
>>they forgot their snub pistol and came after your (Brawling-5)
> character
>>bare-handed, what choice insults would make a good starting point?
>
> Something that should be pretty universal would be "su madre"
> ("your mother")

I got across the basic idea of "su madre" to a friend by dropping into
the appropriate "dialect" and saying "yo' mama!" He got the point.

A *lovely* one I picked up somewhere (possibly Cottman IV?) is "Your
parents were brothers." I've actually used it in real life. It was
interesting to watch as the meaning slowly pentrated...

> If you're talking about personal insults, anything derogatory to a
> creature's sexual equipment or performance would probably be good.

Ditto for comments about parentage/ancestry. See my example above, or
the one I *know* comes from Cottman IV "seven-fathered" (ie implying
that the person referred to is the result of an orgy or a mother with
morals so loose that she couldn't narrow your father down to less than
7 men!)

> I've always found insults with big words are good, as the sort of
> people you usually use them on are stupid, and don't know what the
> words mean. They attack you anyway so they don't have to admit they
> don't understand what you said.
>
> Something like : "You micro-encephalic descendant of a copraphagic
> flatworm" should do it.

I got good results from suggesting that someone might find employment
as a catamite. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:47:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Bagpipes in todays modern army

In mail you write:

> Stuart Ferris wrote:
>
>> Steve Daniels wrote:-
>>
>> >Then a lot of history books need to be fixed.
>> >I've read countless reports of this being a common occurrence
>> >among the Scottish highlanders, long ago.  This story relating to
>> >the reasoning for not wearing anything under the kilt:  throw off
>> >the kilt and your naked (maybe a shirt).  The reason for doing that
>> >being that the old kilts, which were yards and yards of fabric
>> >wrapped around the waist and shoulder, was an encumberance
>> >and danger when fighting close in.  Especially if they got wet.
>>
>> I am not questioning your sources but, a number of things make the me
>> question this:-
>>
>> 1) I think I would rather be encumbered than face an army of sword wielding
>> Englishmen with my wedding tackle dangling ripe to be chopped off.

Do keep in mind that until you get chainmail armor, said "wedding
tackle" is *just* as vulnerable to a sword regardless of whether you
are naked or fully "dressed" for battle. 

And a sword blow isn't likely to hit *there* without hitting something
a lot more critical, such as a leg or your abdomen, on the way.

>> The kilt
>> is made of heavy plaid and would probably do a reasonably good job of
>> weakening any blow.
>
> Its not that tough.  Especially against edged weapons and spears.
> Now if it were made of silk, certainly you'd want to wear it, as the
> Mongols did, because it makes taking an arrow out of your body
> much easier because the silk would conform to the shape of the
> arrow head.  But that isn't the case here.

And in any case, while the kilt might make it harder to *cut* you, even
a *dull* sword causes massive damage by concentrating the force of the
blow in such a manner as to break bones. 

The SCA is *all* too familiar with these issues, because even though
our "weapons" are lighter than the real thing, and have a broader
striking area, we have found it necessary to set up *strict* standards
for "minimum armor" so as to avoid serious injuries. And even a great
kilt doesn't come *close*. 

>> Also, remember they were fighting English troops who
>> would probably be wearing light chainmail. They would be as encumbered if
>> not more.
>
> Wet chainmail isn't much heavier than dry chainmail.  Where wet tartan plaid,
> and the quantity we're talking about, would be a major hindrance.  We're not
> talking about the simple kilt and spooran arrangement you see today, but the
> lengthy cloth wrapped around and around the waist and shoulder.  You take the
> chainmail, I'll take the freedom of movement and the fear I'd instill,
> especially
> since you've been hearing bagpipes for days that have set your teeth on edge
> as they play all through the night, after marching through rough terrain.

Contrary to popular belief, chainmail is *not* that encumbering. It
doesn't hinder your ability to bend. It does add weight, but it's far
better distributed than (say) a field pack. 

And don't forget that the *only* thing holding up a kilt is your
*belt*. If something happens to it, you will have your legs caught in
*yards* of heavy woolen cloth. Unlike modern kilts, the pleats are
*not* sewn in. They are merely *folds* in the cloth, kept in place by
the belt.

>> I had heard that when required to move quickly and on forced marches they
>> would remove their kilts. But, this then raises the question of what they
>> did with them? If they carried them, surely they would still be as
>> encumbered?

For a battle, you'd leave them back with the rear ranks. A kilt was a
major portion of your wealth! A dozen or more yards of plaid was *not*
cheap. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:42:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)

In mail you write:

> For an Aslan referring to them as the opposite gender would work well. A 
> K'kree, eat a salami and breath on them.

Heck, with K'kree, anyone with meat in their diet merely has to
"forget" to use deodorant...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:13:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1391

In mail you write:

>>AD&D has been in print around 30 years and they have only felt it
> necessary
>>to revise it 2 times to date.
>
> I count at least four editions of D&D ( not including what _they_ call
> 3rd Edition )
> plus several oither versions
>
> The original beige books, AD&D first edition, AD&D second edition,
> Basic D&D,
>
> Then there's the second version of AD&D first edition (basically the
> same as 1st edition but re-packaged and advertised in such a way that
> I know several people who bought it expecting it to be a new
> edition ),  Expert D&D, Immortals D&D...

Not quite. Basic D&D, Expert D&D, Immortals D&D, etc are all parts of
one "system". The later ones just add extra rules for dealing with
higher levels and more power. 

So we have "original D&D". This gives birth to both AD&D, and to the
"Basic, etc " D&D family. The BASIC family hasn't been revised much...

AD&D has gone thru several incarnations. 

So I'd say we have this:

Original ----+--- AD&D ----- AD&D 2nd ed ------AD&D 3rd ed
             |
             +--- "Basic D&D" (and follow ons). 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:00:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ?

In mail you write:

> G'day,
>
> I'm writing up a planet, with a sulpher compound trace in the atmosphear.
> I assume that an easy way to filter the compunds out would be to pass the
> air through water   to produce solphuric acid. Is this right ?

Not exactly. Sulfur *dioxide* (SO2) will react with water to produce
sulfurOUS acid (H2SO3). This is pretty weak stuff. 

To create sulfurIC acid requires sulfur *tri*oxide (SO3). This is a lot
harder to create and is a fairly strong oxidizing agent all by itself. 

Also, H2S (hydrogen sulfide) is a possible candidate for a "sulfur
taint". And it *won't* react worth beans with water. Though you can
*burn* it. Which gives you water and SO2.

> Sulpher taint would also mean that the seas were realy weak acid, and if I
> remember my chemistry lessons, all you need to do to remove the acid is
> add metal, but there must be less expensive way to do it, distilling ?

Even "weak" acid seas will tend to erode the hell out of rock,
neutralizing the acid in the process.

Distilling is possible, but complicated. 

> So to live, you pass the air through tainted water, to get good air, and
> then distil the result to get pure water with a bi product of sulphuric
> acid.

You won't get rid of *all* the "taint" that way. Posibly not even
enough to make the air safe to breathe for extended periods. Best bet
is to pass it thru an *alkaline* solution (say "limewater" (CAO2 in
solution). The sulfites and sulfates will react with the calcium and
precipitate out as gypsum (calcium sulfate). 

> This must be good for some sort of industry, but what ? Metal refining ?

Not really. But such high levels of sulfur compounds in the air tend to
indicate either massive amounts of volcanic activity (which implys lots
of useful mineral depositsin the process of being laid down) or
*enormous* amounts of sulfur in the planet's makeup (in which case you
just mine the sulfur). 

The mineral deposits mentioned above would be hydrothermal ones. That
is, water seeping through very hot rock dissolves various minerals, and
they precipitate out when the water gets somewhere that it can cool.
Metal sulfides are major components of such deposits. They are also
easy to refine.

Metal sulfides are things like galena (lead sulfide) iron pyrite (an
iron sulfide), and a bunch of others. Lead, copper, and silver are
prominent parts of such deposits. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:12:31 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)

Somone wondered what Imperial Citizens are called when you're being nice
to them - ie when "Die, Impy Scum!" isn't appropriate.

If they aren't locals (such as ex-Navy or the local Noble),
I reckon that you would refer to them as "Travellers"

:-)

PTraveller-digest      Monday, January 11 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1410



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: In Defence of T4
Re: Scout Brew
Re: In Defence of T4
Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)
Re: BITS and NATS
Re: Battledress & Pipes 
re: Escorts and Area Point Defense
Re: In Defence of T4
Re: Ihatei Motivations (long again)
Most Recent Nuclear War
En Garde:  Traveller's first combat system?
playful rebuttle to way over argued topic
To Paul Sanders Re: Keith Modules
Re: TravellerCon
Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ?
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Sleeping in a Low Birth ?
Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ?
re: Ihatei Motivations
Re: NATS
Re: Scout Brew

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:24:37 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: In Defence of T4

On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Steven Hudson wrote:

> >I hate to break this to you, but times *have* changed, and they continue to do
> >so.    Does *anyone* here think vanilla CT would sell today?  Especially
> 
>   The Traveller Book / TTA probably could, maybe with some colour/upgraded
> B&W art in TTB. IMHO.

  No way, no how, not on today's market. The selling trend today seems to
be either 1)quick to learn, easy to play systems favoring loose
storytelling-type games os 2) high-detail games with a lot of options and
detail plus a heavy dose of gritty realism. CT doesnt even come close to
being either (by today's standards, that is).

>   As much as I like B:7, there's every indication that the average chapter
> in GT: Far Trader will include more background info (B:7 did of course have
> the entire rules section on expanded Merchant generation and play, as well)
> than that entire LBB.

  I have high hopes for GT: Far Trader. If it can really deliver what it
promises, it might just be the hottest thing since sliced bread. I mean,
just how long has Traveller languished without a working trade model?
Could this finally be it? 

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:32:40 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Scout Brew

Legate Legion wrote:
> 
> > From: Roger Barr <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: Scout Brew
> >
> > Well Wednesday, I have to disappoint you. If I remember the article
> > correctly, the Scout's brew was invented by bartenders who were tired of
> > listening to the Imperial Scouts brag about all the different places
> > they visited and the exotic (read:dangerous, intense, wonderfully mind
> > numbing) drinks they had tasted. One bartender somewhere decided he had
> > enough and mixed about a dozen of the most powerful liquors behind the
> > bar, (and added a dash of the old internal combustion engine fuel his
> > car used) and named it Scout's brew.
> > I have to admit it worked. The drink is quite famous...
> 
> So what you are saying is that it is a wussy version of the "Hairy
> Buffalow"?
> 
> The "Hairy Buffalow" is a drink in which one shot of every liquor behind
> the bar is mixed with two shots of lighter fuild...  *weg*
> 
> But, then again, I knew that Scouts could not take what a MARINE could
> take...

No, it's just that Scouts understand that "intoxicating" and "toxic" are
not exactly synonymous....

> 
> Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
> ICQ # 8973001
> legate@futureone.com
> http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm
> 
> "A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
> the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
> mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
> of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

- -- 
- ------
|    |  AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:36:21 +0200 (EET)
From: Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: In Defence of T4

On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:

> Now, i'm not permanetly adjusted w/ TNE mechanics.  The game system isn't
> perfect (though it's as close to that chimera as me and my gaming groups have
> yet discovered). 

  I have this standard test I try on all combat sustems I come across. I
call it the "9mm test". It invelves using the game mechanics to shoot an
unarmored man in the chest with a modern 9mm pistol from a few meters
away. The results should be very painful, quite messy and potentially (but
not invariably) lethal. TNE failed this test, other systems have passed,
so I use those systems. I did kinda like the TNE character generation
system, though.


> I do think d20 allows a better curve than xd6. 

  Excuse me? I'd have to disagree, d20 has a linear probability
distribution. It's the xd6:s that give curvilinear distibutions. For me
3d6 (as in GURPS) seems to give the best spread, but this is of course
strictly a matter of taste.

> If T5 is going to
> do nothing but cater to the middle aged grognards who have clung to the game
> of their youth, which seems to be nothing but a diminishing herd, i'll have NO
> reason to support it.

  Quite a provocative way to put it, but I think I'd still have to agree
with you on this.

- -------------
Eppu Tuominen
eptitu@utu.fi
- -------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:44:12 -0600
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)

Phil Kitching wrote:
> 
> Somone wondered what Imperial Citizens are called when you're being nice
> to them - ie when "Die, Impy Scum!" isn't appropriate.
> 
And what exactly is the connection between Zulu combat forces and
Traveller?  

> If they aren't locals (such as ex-Navy or the local Noble),
> I reckon that you would refer to them as "Travellers"
> 
> :-)
> 
> Phil Kitching
> --
>   Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
>   Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
>  "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

- -- 
- ------
|    |  AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:12:24 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: BITS and NATS

Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com> writes:
>Ayuh.  My official status is "displaced by foreign competition" under
>NAFTA due to a supposed glut of cheap Hydro-Quebec power.  I'm
>eligible for up to two years of retraining and extended unemployment
>benefits.  Funny, I thought my plant shut down because of
>mismanagement ;->

Hm. And my brother's company went under when hit with a countervail
(apparently lower taxes are "unfair competition" when your congressman is
up for re-election).  Funny how international relations works, eh?

ObTrav: Not really. Well, I have great sympathy for those early polities
being eyed by the Third Imperium and Cleon's goons (excuse me: Cleon's
nobles).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:14:20 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Battledress & Pipes 

>Seems as if you have been reading the Lensmens books...  *weg*  Were the
>Battleaxes called "Spaceaxes"?

Never read them. Somehow Doc Smith just doesn't do anything for me.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:05:06 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Escorts and Area Point Defense

Steven Hudson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  Repulsors will likely become utterly disgusting under either rules
clause as proposed; I would suggest that they be treated as having a
much more limited range on the order of that possessed by Nuclear
Dampers (and thus only a true _Point_ Defense function).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

(Cut to Walt running HG numbers...)

I see what you mean. It makes sense that Repulsors shouldn't work
for at least Area Point Defense, I'm still thinking of letting Escorts use
them to protect the ships they are defending. Consider the handwave
for why ships can only escort lower-agility vessels - the Escort needs
the agility advantage so it can place itself between the target and the
threat, even while the target is dodging.

Lasers and Energy Weapons have both offensive and defensive roles.
Repulsors are only defensive, so I think it would be balanced to allow
Escorts to use Repulsors. Besides, it'll make people design 5000tn
or so ships with Repulsor bays.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:15:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: In Defence of T4

> On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:
>> If T5 is going to do nothing but cater to the middle aged grognards
who have clung to the game of their youth, which seems to be nothing
but a diminishing herd, i'll have NO reason to support it.<<

Hey!  I resemble that remark.  By the same token, however, if T:TNE
and Alternity are what we have to look forward to, I might as well
take up golf_now_. ;-]




==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
List your Traveller cargoes for sale or wanted
on the "Subsidized Merchant" page - 
http://surf.to/traveller-trader 


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:24:40 -0800
From: Joe Webb <jwwebb@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Ihatei Motivations (long again)

In response to Charles Collins, and others.  And I agree, its good to have
a conversation about Traveller...

>Well, I'm not sure "worthless failures" is used, is it?
Page 24 of BtC "Landless Aslan males are failures, worthless to society."
IMHO, this contradicts G:T Aslan library data that the landless are indeed
the lowest class, but are farmers, laborers, craftsmen and factory workers.
Not exactly worthless to society.  Granted, females would make up the vast
majority of those jobs, just from sheer numbers, but per G:T those males
aren't worthless.  BtC says different.

>It's a "sink or swim" test of vitality and ambition.
I don't think the Ihatei taboo against inheritance allows for the testing
you suggest.  I've interpreted it to be along the lines of bastards in a
feudal society.  Get rid of them as soon as society allows you to.  This
probably means infanticide, when the father can get away with it, although
I doubt that Aslan society would allow this in the open, no matter how low
Ihatei are considered.  Second sons will be dumped on the street as soon as
they can fend for themselves, like Dickensian street urchins.  With claws.
Unless you can afford to get rid of them some other way.  They'll be
trouble all the same, no matter what you do.

>When resources are plentiful, you take more chances with the second sons.
Perhaps an economic boom in the Heirate could explain the sudden upsurge
in Ihatei activity?

I agree.  Ihatei ships, no matter what size or how old, don't come cheap.
You only have more sons when the risks to society aren't as great, ie the
economy is doing good.

>If I'm reading you right, you're saying that the Ihatei have been in the
>Trojan Reach for some time, expanding slowly and have only recently gained
>sufficient numbers/power to push into the Imperium.  IYTU, is there some
>event that triggers their expansion?

Well, Aslan crossed the Rift two millennia ago.  The Florani, a human minor
race in the TR, got the jump drive from them in -170.  I'd guess, since
they didn't swamp the Florani at the time, that these groups were
colonization spikes, like the Sword Worlds and Terran descendant Darrians
you and Alan Bradley mentioned.

IMTU, infighting among Ihatei over prize worlds is what slowed Aslan
expansion.  Thats why the Florani found a wrecked ship to get the jump
drive from, and not an invasion fleet.  Also, the Glorious Empire, a
heretical Aslan state smack in the middle of the TR, served to keep the
Aslan hedged rimward.
Just as Hans suggested, MTU has the Imperium active against Aslan expansion
after the First Civil War.  It's more of a clandestine, espionage campaign,
as the Glorious Empire uses human slavery, and who likes that?  Also, the
Imps don't want the Zhos adding the Aslan into a new Outworld Coalition.
Lots of adventure hooks in the old Sindalese Empire worlds.  But I
digress...
Ihatei raiders could get past the GE, especially if the GE is troubled with
slave revolts.  But this would be only  random, one shot affairs, not a
wave of invasions.  In the TNE timeline, lack of Imperial support allowed
the GE to be overrun, the booty from the GE funded a lot of Ihatei and
regular clan fleets to push into Imperial space.  This isn't happening in
the G:T timeline.  Only long range spikes are hitting Motmos etc.
Population pressures are making more Ihatei spikes, but it won't get too
serious as long as the GE is still there, but its coming under a lot of
pressure too.

>I'm not sure I picture Aslan sons knocking off their superiors too often.
Badly phrased.  Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that, exactly.  Its more
along the lines of knocking off the neighbors clan leaders and taking the
neighbors land.
I think it's cannon that the Heirate standard line is "those raiders are
Ihatei, not Heirate troops, we don't control them at all" then giving those
'raiders' protection once they have land (since they are now upstanding
members of society and not worthless).  This line probably works better
with other Aslan.  Ihatei would attack other clans, not their own.  Only if
the attacks were success would they suddenly become clans members.  The
attacked clan could not retaliate against anyone except the Ihatei.  Once
the Ihatei are clan, the victim clan could attack the first clan, but it
would be considered unprovoked since "the clan" didn't attack them, the
"Ihatei" did.

Alan stated "Ihatei fleets are how clans extend their holdings."
I disagree that they see it that way, exactly.  I think the Heirate
actually believes that line (used a lot by the Serbians during their war -
"Those are extremist guerrillas, they have no connection to our government.
We think its a shame they are killing our enemies...").  Due to Aslan
psychology/culture, they actually believe this stuff.

How do they keep general warfare from dissolving the Aslan worlds?  Don't
arm your Ihatei, make them laborers instead.  Unless you have too many of
them, you have a good economy, and a few obsolete ships.  Then you pack
your Ihatei aboard, and tell them to get out of your sight or you will blow
them out space.  The Ihatei head for the border as fast as they can, and
start making trouble there.  This is why they don't go spinward.  An Ihatei
fleet would be seen as a threat by everyone, especially Aslan, and
therefore subject to attack.  It would be a huge gauntlet to run starting
from the middle of the TR, for example, to get to The Beyond.  You push
straight for the border instead, where there are guaranteed empty worlds.
Empty in the sense aren't controlled by Aslan clans.

>No males?  But then where do your fighting forces come from?
Oh, yeah, right.  I'm thinking the transports are the support your clan
gives you after you are more or less established.  I'd say an Ihatei fleet
would consist of a ragtag assortment of attack craft and troop transports
for ground assaults.  And yes, I forgot about females having to be in the
initial attack units too.  ; /  And likely in numbers sufficient for a
modest harem, if successful.  : )  Once considered clan, THEN the colonial
transports start arriving, the ones without males.

Sorry this got so long, too much coffee today!

Joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:54:15 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Most Recent Nuclear War

Something I stumbled across on the web, on 
http://www.nonviolence.org/vitw/fastforlifedoc2.html  :

"Preparations are in progress for Hiroshima Day actions dramatizing a little
known fact- the Gulf War was a nuclear war. America and Britain fired about 
350 tons of depleted uranium weapons, considered useful by the military 
because of an unusual ability to destroy tanks. Almost certainly, the 
radioactive dust produced on impact caused the "Gulf War Syndrome" which 
has sickened over 200,000 Americans and an unknown number of Iraqis."

Is this antinuclear activist group just going overboard here because the 
weapon has the hateful word "uranium" in it? I've never heard anything before 
about depleted uranium rounds being any kind of radiation or contamination 
hazard.

ObTrav: If they hate the depleted uranium rounds, wait 'till we show them
the (undepleted) Californium ones....<G>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:16:10 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: En Garde:  Traveller's first combat system?

OK, I'm lying.  It's not.

En Garde, for those of you who are unaware, was actually the first
roleplaying game GDW put out.  The first edition apparently came out in
'75, and it was revised in '77, if I'm reading the copyright notice right.

It's essentially a duelling system, with a fairly high-level (weekly turns)
roleplaying system bolted on, set in something vaguely resembling 17th or
18th century France.  (More like 17th, IMHO).

Anyway, its relevance to Traveller is that it's set in an aristocratic
society, like the Imperium, and focuses on the week to week life of
(mostly) the upper classes.

It's already been ripped off for Traveller once:  Marcus Rowland, I think,
used it as a basis for a military academy situation in a Challenge article.

It would need some serious mangling to work in Traveller, including
modifying it to include female PCs(!), but I think it might be worth
looking into.

The weekly turn level is particularly interesting.  It's an intermediate
level between the second to second play of "normal" low-level Traveller,
and the monthly (World Tamers' Handbook) and yearly (Pocket Empires) turns
of high-level play.  This might be worth sticking on to those systems, to
bring them more in synch with lower level games.

I'm thinking of looking at it more deeply, in between all the other mad
projects I'm doing.  Would anyone else be interested in seeing the results?
 Has anyone else done anything along these lines?

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:22:10 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: playful rebuttle to way over argued topic

Like all robots have imbedded intheir brains his three laws
>>of robotics?
>>
>>Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart


THEY DON'T?!!!
But that Hiver salesman promised me...

;)
Roger Barr

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:20:35 -0500 (EST)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: To Paul Sanders Re: Keith Modules

This is to Paul Sanders regarding the "Keith" modules.
I have lost your email address and need to contact you
for I will be moving soon.  I hope you haven't already sent the package
out! :-)

Please send me email at cmdrx@magicnet.net
I will respond with my new address.

Thanks.

William "Commander X" Prankard

\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:03:58 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon

>
>> For at least the first one, might I suggest the best place for a
>> TravellerCon would be the birthplace of Traveller itself, 
Bloomington-Normal
>> Illinois? I've been there (even seen the original GDW offices); it's 
a nice
>> town, has some nice game shops, Illinois State University, and would 
be
>> appropriate.
>
>Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
>
>I can dig it.  Kinda like a pilgrimage to Mecca kinda thing.
>
>

I went there on business a few months back and couldn't find a single 
game shop. (Then again, the only resource I had was the yellow pages...)
Roger Barr


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:21:35 +0000
From: "E.D.Quibell" <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ?

Leonard Erickson wrote:

	some realy usefull stuff, thanks

Ewan
- -- 

   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,
   Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death
                                      Rode the six hundred.
   #include<stddisclaimer.h>                      Alfred, Lord Tennyson

   My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typoes, and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:29:52 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

>---steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:
>> I've been in Boston for almost 4 years and haven't been North of
>> Cambridge.
>
>"Come to Maine, spend money, go home."
>(The motto of Vacationland)

I always liked the big (ancient) billboard up in Kokadjo ME.

Need for context here;  You've just passed the bustling metropolis of
Greenville (pop like 4,000 in that many acres), after driving (1) 4 hours
in the Maine Tpke and (2) 2 hours on country highways through some of the
most beautiful country I know.  The last billboard before this was in
Boston.

The billboard reads something like;

THIS IS GOD'S COUNTRY
SO BE CAREFUL NOT TO
BURN IT DOWN AND
MAKE IT LOOK LIKE HELL

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:29:30 +0000
From: "E.D.Quibell" <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Sleeping in a Low Birth ?

I was woundering, as some times I do, Do you get a good rest from travelling
in a low birth ?

My thoughts are that you would not. As you go into the Low Birth and are
"frozen" as you go in, your sate of mind, and sate of boady would be the same
when to were taken out.

But then do people think that there is a period of relaxation that the low
bearth buts the boady through before they go under ? If this was the case then
they would up unfrozen, and would wake up refresed and relaxed.

Any suggestions, comments and oppinions would be appreciated.

Ewan
- -- 

   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,
   Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death
                                      Rode the six hundred.
   #include<stddisclaimer.h>                      Alfred, Lord Tennyson

   My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typoes, and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:37:05 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ?

At 03:00 11/01/1999 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> G'day,
>>
>> I'm writing up a planet, with a sulpher compound trace in the atmosphear.
>> I assume that an easy way to filter the compunds out would be to pass the
>> air through water   to produce solphuric acid. Is this right ?
>
>Not exactly. Sulfur *dioxide* (SO2) will react with water to produce
>sulfurOUS acid (H2SO3). This is pretty weak stuff. 
>
>To create sulfurIC acid requires sulfur *tri*oxide (SO3). This is a lot
>harder to create and is a fairly strong oxidizing agent all by itself. 
>
another problem with SO3 is that when you mix it with water, you get
what can be best be described as a stable mist.

I recall the experiment from school - stand outside and a small amount
of SO3 passed through water = acidic mist that floats off across town,
assuming the teacher gets the wind direction correct. :-)

Apparently you can't easily turn this into a liquid, so the industrial
solution is to dissolve the SO3 into Sulphuric acid (H2SO4) to produce
Oleum (sp?) (H2SO7).

You then add the Oleum to water to get the Sulphuric acid.

Oleum appears to be one of those very nasy chemicals that industry
probably wishes it didn't have to play with.

<snip>

Phil Kitching
- --
  Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:43:14 -0500
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Ihatei Motivations

Joe Webb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Page 24 of BtC "Landless Aslan males are failures, worthless to society."
IMHO, this contradicts G:T Aslan library data that the landless are indeed
the lowest class, but are farmers, laborers, craftsmen and factory workers.
Not exactly worthless to society.  Granted, females would make up the vast
majority of those jobs, just from sheer numbers, but per G:T those males
aren't worthless.  BtC says different.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I think there is a difference between an Ihatei of a noble house and an Aslan
male born to a family that has no land. Even the first son of a landless
clan is "worthless". An Ihatei of a wealthy and powerful house still has 
some access to wealth and power, he's not immediately dumped to social 
standing 0...he just has to use some of that wealth and power to go get his 
own land or die trying.

Joe Webb again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I don't think the Ihatei taboo against inheritance allows for the testing
you suggest.  I've interpreted it to be along the lines of bastards in a
feudal society.  Get rid of them as soon as society allows you to.  This
probably means infanticide, when the father can get away with it, although
I doubt that Aslan society would allow this in the open, no matter how low
Ihatei are considered.  Second sons will be dumped on the street as soon as they can fend for themselves, like Dickensian street urchins.  With 
claws. Unless you can afford to get rid of them some other way.  They'll be
trouble all the same, no matter what you do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
IMTU, I've seen Aslan as being very concerned with family responsibilities.
I can't see anyone but the lowest of the low landholders committing male
infanticide - what honor in slaying children? As for orphaning them, what
honor to your house is there in having your unwanted children begging
in the streets outside your doors?

Too many Ihatei in a clan is a problem, certainly. Aslan face their problems,
they don't quietly dispose of them or toss them out and ignore them.

I think more "Questing Knight" than "Dickensian Orphan". You must send
your Ihatei out into the world. The stronger and better prepared you send
them out, the better honor their departure brings to your clan - and the
better chance they will found a clan that will extend your clan's power.
Sending them out in rags, on the other hand...

Walt Smith
- -------------------
_'Here, Kitty Kitty' and other Diplomatic Crises of the Aslan Borders_
   - published memoirs of an Imperial diplomat

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:10:15 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: NATS

Call me dense, or I guess I missed something.
What is being put together?
Roger Barr


>I guess, at this point, you could say I'm trolling. I'm willing to do
>the leg work and try to contact the other parties involved at BITS, 
and,
>obviously, Marc. I'm just trying to see what type of responce is out
>there. 
>
>Is there enough interest to try and put this type of thing together?
>
>steve daniels wrote:
>> 
>> Michael Peters wrote:
>> 
>> [snip]
>> 
>> Thanks for spelling that out for me.
>> 
>> --
>> Bloo
>> Resounding Technology
>> Creators of RogerWilco
>> http://www.resounding.com/
>
>-- 
>Mike Peters
>travelleri@home.com
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:28:18 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Scout Brew

> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
> Subject: Re: Scout Brew
> 
> > The "Hairy Buffalow" is a drink in which one shot of every liquor
behind
> > the bar is mixed with two shots of lighter fuild...  *weg*
> > 
> > But, then again, I knew that Scouts could not take what a MARINE could
> > take...
> 
> No, it's just that Scouts understand that "intoxicating" and "toxic" are
> not exactly synonymous....

They aren't?  Well, it seems to me that a "Hairy Buffalow" would be the
perfect drink for the Marines...  It is strong & powerful...  Maybe the
"Virgin Mary" is the drink for the scouts?

Btw, I have figured out why Scoutships smell like old sweatsocks...  They
have stills hidden in each & every one...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1410
***********************************

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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 11 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1411



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Most Recent Nuclear War
Re: 24 Hour Policy
Re: playful rebuttle to way over argued topic
Sleeping in a Low Birth ?
Re: Scout Brew
Re: Aslan equipment
Re: Magazine Capacities
Re: ADM: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.
Re: Aslan equipment
Re: Few things recently posted (actually related (but not really to trav))
Re: Appeal
Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)
Re: In Defence of T4
Re: Martian Metals Miniatures?
Re: GT tech levels vs Ancient Tech and TL penalties
Re: What the heck is going on here lately?
Re:  Ra! Ra! Ra!
Re: Battledress & Pipes (was: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.)
Re: T5, GT and SJG
Re: Few things recently posted (actually related (but not really to trav))
re: a sad commentary on gamers
Re: Scout Brew
Re: Scout Brew
Re: Ihatie Motivations
[BITS] BITS website updated - 11/1/99
Re: Vargr, in combat.
Noble responsibility
Question...
Re: Most Recent Nuclear War
Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:42:25 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Most Recent Nuclear War

In a message dated 1/11/99 10:28:05 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU writes:

>  Is this antinuclear activist group just going overboard here because the 
>  weapon has the hateful word "uranium" in it? I've never heard anything 
> before 
>  about depleted uranium rounds being any kind of radiation or contamination 
>  hazard.

Well, "depleted" uranium is still radioactive, but not dangerously so.
Inhaling
uranium dust is probably not good for you, of course, but I doubt depleted-
core
rounds kick up any significant amount of such dust.  An armchair strategist
such as myself is probably not the best person to address that.

My guess is, you're right about the knee-jerk reaction to the word "uranium."
Much as I hate falling into Jerry Pournelle's camp, my experience has been
that most anti-nuke activists have no understanding of the science involved
(and are proud of their ignorance).

- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, freelance writer, amateur
historian, science fiction fan, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
JFZeigler@aol.com
"Never speak for others. You can get in enough trouble speaking for yourself."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:16:23 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: 24 Hour Policy

Jason Kemp wrote:
> 
> My Friends and Acquaintances on the TML,

<snip>

> ObTrav:  It's a suggestion for TML list etiquette.  Thanks.
> 
> In Service,
> Jason


Or to quote Thomas Jefferson in a letter to his granddaughter Cornelia,
in 1811,

"When angry, count 10 before you speak; if very angry, 100.


Greg

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:32:49 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: playful rebuttle to way over argued topic

> From: Roger Barr <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
> Subject: playful rebuttle to way over argued topic
> 
> Like all robots have imbedded intheir brains his three laws
> >>of robotics?
> >>
> >>Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
> 
> 
> THEY DON'T?!!!
> But that Hiver salesman promised me...

And, you trusted a Hiver?

> ;)
> Roger Barr

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:05:44 +0000
From: "E.D.Quibell" <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Sleeping in a Low Birth ?

I was woundering, as some times I do, Do you get a good rest from travelling
in a low birth ?

My thoughts are that you would not. As you go into the Low Birth and are
"frozen" as you go in, your sate of mind, and sate of boady would be the same
when to were taken out.

But then do people think that there is a period of relaxation that the low
bearth buts the boady through before they go under ? If this was the case then
they would up unfrozen, and would wake up refresed and relaxed.

Any suggestions, comments and oppinions would be appreciated.

Ewan
- --

   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,
   Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death
                                      Rode the six hundred.
   #include<stddisclaimer.h>                      Alfred, Lord Tennyson

   My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typoes, and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:04:09 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Scout Brew

>> I have to admit it worked. The drink is quite famous...
>
>So what you are saying is that it is a wussy version of the "Hairy
>Buffalow"?
>
>The "Hairy Buffalow" is a drink in which one shot of every liquor 
behind
>the bar is mixed with two shots of lighter fuild...  *weg*
>
>But, then again, I knew that Scouts could not take what a MARINE could
>take...
>
>Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart


Naw...Marines can't handle deisel. Not enough flash!
:)
Roger Barr

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:43:48 +0000
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment

The way I see it, the Aslan pay more attention to aesthetics than they
do to economy or speed of production, but *not* at the expense of
functionality. It's the difference between craft and industry rather
than flash and substance. 

TTFN,

John
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:48:43 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Magazine Capacities

In a message dated 1/10/99 6:20:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<<  ObTrav - what are the big, dumb, brutes _for_ :> >>

cannon fodder and Grav ball...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:52:06 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: ADM: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.

In a message dated 1/10/99 11:49:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dreamer@brokersys.com writes:

<< 
 Thanks for the good work,
 
 Kenneth.
  >>

I'll second that ....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:40:32 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment

In a message dated 1/10/99 4:55:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< *OR*, the fluting and such would fit an Aslan hand better than the standard
 Imperial designs.
  >>

Yes; I forgot they have four finger hands...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:29:54 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Few things recently posted (actually related (but not really to trav))

In a message dated 1/10/99 3:18:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
paul@turing.tcp.co.uk writes:

<< OK Going back to
 the kilt arguments what strange/obscure additions to dress uniform do
 certain imperial units have? >>

How about dress swords and cutlasses for starters...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:47:47 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Appeal

"as well as an ob Trav"
>Gary
>

Okay, Im new. This much is obvious to all by this question: What the 
____ is an ObTrav?
Roger Barr



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:12:52 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)

In a message dated 1/10/99 6:24:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, dberry@hooked.net
writes:

<< My Ghu.  Dyke females, and interior decorator males.  How do they
reproduce?>>

In an unfurnished, padded, soundproofed room?
 
 <>

Think of them as Spartans or the Theban Sacred Band...I wouldn't want to call
them any anti gay slur....:-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:37:08 EST
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: Re: In Defence of T4

In a message dated 1/11/99 10:41:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
swordworlder@yahoo.com writes:

<< 
 Hey!  I resemble that remark.  By the same token, however, if T:TNE
 and Alternity are what we have to look forward to, I might as well
 take up golf_now_. ;-] >>

		Hey!  has anyone thought of a liscenced Alternity: Traveller

				JOKE, REALLY,   Please don't throw me off the list.

		Dave "Dr Stodgicus" Nelson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:02:27 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Martian Metals Miniatures?

In a message dated 1/10/99 6:22:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<< Does anyone out there have a photo of the Martian Metals Air/Raft
 miniature? Mine is incomplete, and I'm wondering what sort of wind-
 screen I'm supposed to improvise.
 
         Steven Hudson >>

If it is legal; you've got to make molds of your air/raft. I would give
anything for a couple of copies...

PS: CT book 3 has a good side view of an air/raft and its' windscreen...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:18:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: GT tech levels vs Ancient Tech and TL penalties

Bont writes:

> What kind of penalty would you apply to reverse-engineering 
> something from the same TL?  -3, -6 ?

Depends on the item.  I'd probably use the invention rules, with a bonus for
having a working example.  Depending on the complexity of the device, likely to
be a net modifier from -3 to -10.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:21:45 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: What the heck is going on here lately?

In a message dated 1/10/99 7:15:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, semo@pil.net
writes:

<< Actually, the Texas leaving the U.S. thread was 100% percent relevant to
 Traveller. Somebody made a Traveller related post concerning their version
 of future history and asked for comments. That discussion was made up of
 those comments. >>

True, but the follow ups drifted badly off track, helped by a certain
unmentionable who has irritated everyone (including me) lately...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:20:51 +0800
From: Michael Bailey <mickb@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re:  Ra! Ra! Ra!

>Equally "relevant" to Traveller, but more amusing:

>"There is only one God!
> He is a Sun God!
> Ra! Ra! Ra!"

>- - Ancient Egyptian cheerleaders' chant.


Wan't that performed by the Nine Unknown Men at the infamous Ingolstadt
Festival?


Of course, any concert that is capped off by the sudden appearance of
Yog-Sothoth and an undead SS Armoured Division automatically qualifies as
'infamous'.




Mick Bailey
mickb@iinet.net.au
solomani.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:17:53 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Battledress & Pipes (was: Off Topic posts, behavior, and other issues.)

In a message dated 1/10/99 6:52:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca writes:

<< Back when AHL was released, my group realized that battleaxes and
 battledress were the best way of capturign a starship. (Great penetration,
 and no nasty equipment damage when you miss!)
 
 So naturally the Scottish-descended units sported Kevlar kilts, claymores,
 and had pipe music playing through loudspeakers. Sort of a "surrender now
 or we let slip the Scots of war" kind of threat :-)
  >>

LOL, but I am still on the anti side of the anti-battledress melee weapon
flamefest...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:08:31 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5, GT and SJG

In a message dated 1/10/99 6:23:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, AveNelso@aol.com
writes:

<< The first time I ran Chivalry and Sorcery I had a boat
 full of Viking PC's all of whom had the lowest possible Appearence scores.
 Oh my god here comes Sigmund Fester-face andnhis deformed crew!  >>

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

G-D I remember C+S fondly (my "other" RPG). I really miss FGU. I know Scott
Bizar is in Gilbert AZ. He owns Waterloo III (retail store), and I think still
sells what's left of his FGU stock. I left numerous messages with the store
manager that I said hi (I used to work with him and game with him), but I
never heard from him; sigh...:-(

Ob trav: It's a big galaxy out there...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:15:37 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Few things recently posted (actually related (but not really to trav))

In a message dated 1/10/99 6:24:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, dberry@hooked.net
writes:

<< IMTU, the Marines wear maroon berets as a node to their oldest antecedents,
 the 82nd Airborne.  All marines have a field beret that the stuff into a
 carrying pouch and change into as soon as the DZ is secure enough to allow
 removing ther helmet.  Marine mess-dress does include a kilt. >>

didn't the DGP stuff have some articles on this sort of thing (uniform
descriptions and and article or two on the Imperial Guard)? If anyone has
them, and it's legal, how about posting them somewhere in cyberspace for us
Traveller-collection challenged...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:11:26 PST
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: re: a sad commentary on gamers

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
To: "'TML'" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: re: a sad commentary on gamers
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 20:37:11 -0500
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

Rob Prior wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I picked up the game "Tribes" (from SJG) to use in class. I can _highly_
recommend this one-it's great fun, educational, and cheap ($10US).
============================

Hmmmmm, If I'm in such sad shape, I better ask my wife where those two 
kids running around the house came from, eh?



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
REALITY.SYS Corrupted:  Re-Boot Universe?  (Y/N/Q)
In God we trust, everyone else SQUAWK MODE IV!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tigger of Borg:  ASSIMILATING!!!  Thats what Tiggers do Best!


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:29:20 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Scout Brew

In a message dated 1/10/99 7:47:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rogerbarr@hotmail.com writes:

<< One bartender somewhere decided he had 
 enough and mixed about a dozen of the most powerful liquors behind the 
 bar, (and added a dash of the old internal combustion engine fuel his 
 car used) and named it Scout's brew.
 I have to admit it worked. The drink is quite famous... >>

Been there, done that. It's called a Long Island Iced tea, and I'm talking
about the real ones made at the OBI (Oak Beach Inn) on Long Island, and not
the touristy swill made in Florida and California...:-)  Guess where I grew
up...:-) G-D I remember trying to drive home from that place along  Ocean
Parkway and up the Meadowbrook parkway absolutely hammered- I was such a
moron... It was even more entertaining when we boated to the bar and not
drove...

Ob Trav: EVERY  3I cultural and regional difference flamefest ever posted on
the TML...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:48:03 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Scout Brew

Roger Barr wrote:

> Well Wednesday, I have to disappoint you. If I remember the article
> correctly, the Scout's brew was invented by bartenders who were tired of
> listening to the Imperial Scouts brag about all the different places
> they visited and the exotic (read:dangerous, intense, wonderfully mind
> numbing) drinks they had tasted. One bartender somewhere decided he had
> enough and mixed about a dozen of the most powerful liquors behind the
> bar, (and added a dash of the old internal combustion engine fuel his
> car used) and named it Scout's brew.
> I have to admit it worked. The drink is quite famous...

Oh, so it's a Pan-Galactic Gargleblaster, then, is it?

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:33:51 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ihatie Motivations

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
 
> Especially since, as soon as they get land of their own, the ihatei could then
> found their own clans.  Aslan society is just as much about how the clans get
> along with each other as how the Aslans themselves get along with each other.
> Your little brother going out and forming his own clan can give you a boost,
> especially if you helped him get it started. 

Also, don't forget that your brothers will be a (I think they call it)
cadet branch of your clan, adding to the influence and prestige of your
own. After all they are related, so the family relations will continue.
Your younger brother will also welcome the backup of the larger family
clan in conflicts with other clans.

So I don't think it'll be at all adversarial.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:52:30 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [BITS] BITS website updated - 11/1/99

BITS (British Isles Traveller Support)

BITS Website, http://www.bits.org.uk/ , has had a correction and an update.

*Rob Prior's GURPS Traveller Starship Compendium has been upgraded to
Release 4 and now contains 60 starships designed with the GT Basic rules,
using the forthcoming GT Shipyard Software (MacOS and Windows). *Please
Note - this Acrobat file is 1Mb in size* Jointly hosted with Freelance
Traveller.

*The broken link to the Compendium in the Archive page is fixed (the index
link was fine, that's the one hidden under the BITS logo on the Left hand
frame). Apologies for the error with the link.

Dom (BITS webmaster)

- ----------
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
GURPS is a trademark of Stev Jackson Games, Inc.
All rights reserved.

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:47:13 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Vargr, in combat.

Rick Elrod wrote:
> 
> "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net> wrote:
> 
> >So, why *do* canines howl?  I suggest it is as a form of
> >communication announcing and marking their territory, and announcing
> >their location and identity to the rest of their pack.
> >
> >Do Vargr howl?  It wouldn't surprise me if they did, but not in the
> >way, or for the reasons, Clif suggests.
> 
> Remember how in World War II, the Germans designed their fighters to
> emit some sort of "whine" that had a very demoralizing effect on the

Junkers Ju 87 Stuka Dive bombers.

> victims of their attacks?  (This is also the reason behind the whine you
> hear from Imperial TIE fighters in Star Wars).  When humans are alone at
> night and hear the howl of wolves in the distance, it tends to strike
> fear and apprehension.
>

This must be the same reason kids whine when parents say "No".  If they
whine enough and long enough they know parents get demoralized and give
in with much less of a fight.  And sometimes I've been told that kids
even begin to whine when they get off the bus because they know that at
certain frequencies, whines have been known to strike a chord with
overworked parents that sets up a resonance that makes them give in even
before the questions are asked.....  

Cheers,

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:53:11 EST
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: Noble responsibility

	Here's a question:
		Assume:   Subsector  Alpha,   Duke Alphonse
				   March Beta (worlds Bigo, Cuto and Dundo), Marquis Boris
					Planet Dundo: 		Count Ernst

	If  planet Dundo is raided by pirates, what is the role of each of the
noblemen?
		
	I would think it would be something like this: 
			Count Ernst: could order planetary Navy to take action against pirates as
long as it all remains in system.
			Dule Alphonse could order the subsector/reserve fleet to act against the
pirates and would probably be able to get the Regular fleet to act if they
were otherwise unengaged, bypassing any request for action to Capital or
Archduke.
			What would the Marquis be able to do?  I don't know.
			Or perhaps the same planet cannot be a Count's fief and part of a Marquis'
fief--I'm unclear.     Clearly every planet is beholden to a Subsector Duke,
and very often a Count and/or marquis too, with sections of a planet beholden
possibly to a baron.

		or am I all wet and do nobles really have no authority over military and/or
diplomatic assets?    What do they do then?  Why is there a feudal system?

		Dave "Dr. Stodgicus" Nelson

	"Go to bed on time, and pay your taxes, and you'll never have to see an
Imperial Soldier again"   Emperor Cleon's address to the population of the
Chanestin Kingdom after the fall of their capital, Imp year 3.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:35:41 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Question...

I have a major question to ask of you...

First I think you need some background...  I am running a TNE game using MT
Rules & a dash of PE...

 A player in the game has captured a TL-8 balkanized planet...  Upon this
planet was several large stockpiles of nuclear weapons...  Anyway, after he
captured this world he moved all nuclear weapons of this planet, using
surplus TL-11 fighters he has mated the TL-8 Nuclear Weapons (in the 10 to
100 Megaton Range) with them for use against primarily ships, but can be
used against ground targets, & using surplus TL-10 Air/Rafts he has mater
the TL-8 Nuclear Weapons (in the 20 Kiloton to 10 Megaton Range) for use
against Ground Targets...

Now the question...  I know the effects of the Air/Raft-Nuclear Weapon
combo on Ground Targets because I am using the Morrow Project rules for
that, but what I would like to know is the effect ot the Fighter-Nuclear
weapon combo on ships...  Like what would a 10 Mt device do, a 25 Mt
device, a 50 Mt device, & a 100 Mt device?

Thank you in advance...

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:46:20 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Most Recent Nuclear War

Walter Smith wrote:

> Is this antinuclear activist group just going overboard here because the
> weapon has the hateful word "uranium" in it? I've never heard anything before
> about depleted uranium rounds being any kind of radiation or contamination
> hazard.

Well, the problem is not as much that they're radioactive (they're not,
that's rather the whole point of the _depleted_ bit) but that they _are_
toxic, especially if you go crawling around a wreck where one has hit
and vaporized. These are not just uranium, but they have stable fission
by-products, as well, which are also toxic. Lots of heavy meatals
floating about in fine dust form. 

I rather doubt that the Gulf War Syndrome is solely caused by these
things. In fact, I suspect that it is an unholy synergistic reaction
with _all_ the toxic crap floating around the troops during the war,
what with the insecticides, anti-anthrax injections, other assorted
inoculations, breathing burning oil well for months on end, mustard gas,
possibly nerve gas combustion products, and heavy metals from blowing up
all those Iraqis with our depleted uranium rounds...we really should
have worried less about the chemical warfare committed by the Iraqis and
worried more about that we inflicted on ourselves. :-/

A number of the symptoms of Gulf War syndrome have been documented in
refinery workers, both petroleum as well as metals extraction. I suspect
that the inoculations and such given all the troops probably primed
their immune systems as well to be much more sensitive to environmental
insult.

This is not to say that the anti-nuke folks aren't going to scare people
with the fact that 'uranium' is a boogey-man word, they've played fast
and loose with the truth for a long time. (Given, they learned that from
the AEC and the government, I'm not all that surprised...)

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:54:33 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Insults and name-calling (On-topic)

>Somone wondered what Imperial Citizens are called when you're being 
nice
>to them - ie when "Die, Impy Scum!" isn't appropriate.
>
>If they aren't locals (such as ex-Navy or the local Noble),
>I reckon that you would refer to them as "Travellers"
>
>:-)
>
>Phil Kitching


You call them: "Sir"
;)
Roger Barr

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1411
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.comTraveller-digest      Monday, January 11 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1412



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Wall maps of the Universe.
Re: Surveillance
Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)
Re: jumpspace recursion
Re: Military Vacations
Re: Ihatie Motivations
Re: Most Recent Nuclear War
Re: Most Recent Nuclear War
Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army. 
Obtrav
Fw: Admin Form Response
Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ?
RE: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?
Re: Bagpipes in todays modern army
Re: Most Recent Nuclear War 
Roleplaying through Starship Combat...
a few new pics on my site
Re: Admin Form Response [OFFTOPIC]
Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)
Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?) 
Re: real-world railguns

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:53:40 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Wall maps of the Universe.

Someone, I don't remember who, asked about large scale maps of the 3I.
That remeinded me of something I'd seen a long time ago, and I finally
found my copies last night.

These came from the same web site that used to host "The Traveller
Chronicles", and for the life of me that's _all_ I can remember.

they're posted at:

http://www.u.arizona.edu/~bjohnson/tadven.html

at the bottom of the page.

One shows all the sector names, both canon, and a  lot beyond canon. The
other is a political regions map, showing the 3I in scale and context of
the surrounding olitical entities, such as the Zhodani, K'Kree and
Hivers.

Fascinating maps, and if whoever did them wants to let me know the rest
of the story, I'd dearly love it, as well as give proper credit where
it's due. (If you want me to take them down, I can do that too.)
- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:36:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Surveillance

Leonard Erickson writes:
 
> Actually, neutrino sensors can be used with a *lot* of computer help to
> do scans of planets and smaller bodies. Densitometers will detect
> secret rooms and compartments unless they are a *lot* broader focused
> than I think they are. After all, a hidden room or compartment is one
> hell of a density variation.

True.  However, most insurgencies aren't going to use 'hidden' rooms per se;
they're going to use perfectly normal rooms which people who aren't their
friends rarely enter.  A basement with boxes of condiments and one with boxes
of weapons probably don't look all that different...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:35:03 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)

In a message dated 1/10/99 3:28:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, semo@pil.net
writes:

<< Even imperialized Aslan would tend to decorate their own weapons with
little
 aesthetic touches, IMHO. >>

I own a S + W model 10 revolver made in 1962. The blueing is coming off in
places form zillions of holstering-unholsterings. I would LOVE to have it
decorated with engravings and scroll work when I have it reblued. Customizing
a weapon is cool...:-).

Ob Trav: why let only the Aslan have all the fun. Let anyone do-dad up their
personal effects, like a personal trademark. A good GM can have fun with this.
(you were recognised by the fancy paintjob on your ship, and by the fancy
tooled syntho-leather gunbelt you wore dirtside...)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:42:10 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: jumpspace recursion

>>>>
Yes. Jump space destroys normal matter. That's why ships carry a bubble
of *normal* space around them. So Ship A is *not* in jump space. It's
in a small chunk of normal space that's inside jump space.

Alas for ship A, it's also in "normal space" that's nowhere *near*
"flat" enough for safe activation of a jump drive. So it suffers the
same fate as a ship trying to jump from the surface of a planet. 

Ship B runs into trouble because Ship A's attempts may disrupt the
bubble of normal space around it. In which case *it* goes away. 

- - -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>>>>
The standard definition of Jump says it needs to be about 100 diameters from the nearest significant gravity source.  If ship A were in a big enough cargo hold that it was 100 diameters from anyplace on ship B, it would by definition be further than 100 d from any point of the Jump bubble ship B is in.  You are saying that 100 diameters from the closest point of a Jump bubble is not flat enough space?
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:25:40 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Military Vacations

>
>Tim wrote:
>> 
>> I have been thinking about a Traveller campaign and started to wonder
>> how to get military characters into an adventure without starting a
>> war.  

Personally, I use active military players only when the mission is of 
military (or political) importance. I might run a Navy Covert Op with an 
Intel team of active officers, but anything which is the "usual style" 
of "adventuring" with player characters I require no military 
attachments, i.e. having finished the service committment and retired or 
simply didn't reinlist.

This way if a player nukes a starport, noone can say he was active duty 
Imperial military and start a war. Anyone that is retired is officially 
out of the service. (This becomes a fine line when they have become 
independent mercenaries, or some other such type of operator.)

Good luck making it work in YTU.

Roger Barr



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:18:29 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Ihatie Motivations

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

>The reason that they are given these huge ships is a) their eventual
>landholdings reflect on the prestige of their clan, and b) it get's them the
>heck away from plotting to take the land back home. Remember the Ihatei was a
>concept that the Aslan came up with to end the endless cycles of internecine
>war and fratricide that characterized their pre-space history.

Most of the Ihatei cruisers are surplus, TL13, units _considered
obsolescent by contemporary Alsan standards._

Source MT Rebellion Sourcebook, pg 89, Alsan Weakhto Class Cruiser.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:38:08 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Most Recent Nuclear War

JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 1/11/99 10:28:05 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU writes:
> 
> >  Is this antinuclear activist group just going overboard here because the
> >  weapon has the hateful word "uranium" in it? I've never heard anything
> > before
> >  about depleted uranium rounds being any kind of radiation or contamination
> >  hazard.
> 
> Well, "depleted" uranium is still radioactive, but not dangerously so.
> Inhaling
> uranium dust is probably not good for you, of course, but I doubt depleted-
> core
> rounds kick up any significant amount of such dust.  An armchair strategist
> such as myself is probably not the best person to address that.

I've been hearing something about this too, but I can't quote anything. 
Seems like there is some thought about that in the area here around
Washington DC, but again, I can't remember where I saw it.  Evening News
or something.  There was a point made about the military not doing the
research into what would happen when you used those rounds and that
basically we were asking our tankers and such to be guinea pigs.

Could be true...

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:29:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Most Recent Nuclear War

Walter Smith writes:
> Something I stumbled across on the web, on 
> 
> Is this antinuclear activist group just going overboard here because the 
> weapon has the hateful word "uranium" in it? I've never heard anything
> before  about depleted uranium rounds being any kind of radiation or
> contamination  hazard.

DU isn't a particularly significant radiation hazard, but uranium is a highly
reactive metal, and can cause heavy metal poisoning -- it's more toxic than
lead.  However, there's no shortage of things in the burning wreckage of a tank
which are contamination hazards, so its not clear how much it really adds to
the risk.

Note that DU may be being phased out anyway, there's some evidence that its
superior armor penetration has to do with a rapid chemical reaction that occurs
when it impacts against steel, causing the metal to soften, and newer armors
can be constructed that don't behave in this way, which means tungsten is just
as good.

In any case, the concept that use of DU makes a war 'nuclear' is rather absurd.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:46:16 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army. 

> >> > IMTU, sonics are installed on embassy walls facing out in case of
> protests against the owning governments.  Helps keep down the lawsuits when
> things get messy.
> >>
> >> The biggest problem I see with sonics is that there is little that can
> >> be done to make them truely directional. Even using cones to direct the
> >> sound waves will allow conciderable collateral effects.
> >>
> >> Not to say it can't be effective. If the user(s) are protected first the
> >> sonics could work. Say Impy Marines in battledress, with integral
> >> protection vs. unprotected protesters.
> >>
> >> Still I don't think it would be effective on a battlefield. Both sides
> >> would "armor" against it as a matter of course.
> >
> >Last time I looked, embassy courtyards weren't battlefields, and rioting
> mobs
> >weren't too well armoured.  <grin>
> 
> True, but it does bring to mind the attack on Panama by U.S. forces to
> capture Noriega.

Or the attack on the American Embassy in Paris in Norman Spinrad's 'Russian 
Spring', one helluva near future political experience.  <grin>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:01:45 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Obtrav

Dear Folks -

Roger asked:
>what is an ObTrav?

Obligatory Traveller reference. Actually, having myself asked that same
question once before, I prefer using ObTravRef.

PS. Roger, your wife's name isn't Donna, is it?  ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:32:01 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Fw: Admin Form Response

Just in from Clif's ISP...  So if people really want Clif off the TML, let
us not bother Rob, let us do it ourselves...  *weg*

Legate Legion, Old Gaming Fart
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack
of French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

- ----------
> From: Steve Johnson <sjohnson@iu.net>
> To: legate@futureone.com
> Cc: Admin List <admin@digital.net>
> Subject: RE: Admin Form Response
> Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 8:16 AM
> 
> Send us an email with the full headers of the flame and we will
investigate.
> 
> Steve Johnson
> Florida Online
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: legate@futureone.com [mailto:legate@futureone.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 1999 6:21 PM
> > To: admin@digital.net
> > Subject: Admin Form Response
> > 
> > 
> > 		
> > 	Jan 10, 1999
> > 
> > 	Greetings FOL Administration :
> > 
> > 	Name :   			Legate
> > 	Email :  			legate@futureone.com
> > 	Daytime Phone :		602-993-5232
> > 	
> > 	Issue:				Yes, one of your clients is 
> > flaming a Mailing List I am a member of & I would like you to do 
> > what you can to stop him...  Thank you...
> > 
> > 	ppp2-83.phnx.dialup.futureone.com
> > 	209.250.9.83
> > 	Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; AK; Windows 95)
> > 	
> > 	Thank you,
> > 
> > 	The Admin Form Robot
> > 	
> > 	
> > 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:58:10 +0000
From: "E.D.Quibell" <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ?

Leonard Erickson wrote:

<stuff snipped>

> You won't get rid of *all* the "taint" that way. Posibly not even
> enough to make the air safe to breathe for extended periods. Best bet
> is to pass it thru an *alkaline* solution (say "limewater" (CAO2 in
> solution). The sulfites and sulfates will react with the calcium and
> precipitate out as gypsum (calcium sulfate).

So we take possible contaminated water, and add an alkaline to it, until
satureated. (The alkaline will remove any weak acid from the contaninated
water first). Then pass the air through it untill the water sulution is PH7,
and we end up with pure water, clean air, and gypsum. Is this right ? Is
Gypsum useful for anything ?

If the world were a water world, where would you find the alkaline ? apart
from off world.

Im trying to wright up a world, that would survive the long night, on it's
own, at around TL 5, 6, or 7 (the lower the better) with a small population
(pop code 5), although it is looking more like I will have to change the taint
(something I don't realy want to do).

Any suggestions, comments, or oppinions are always welcome.

Ewan
- -- 

   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,
   Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death
                                      Rode the six hundred.
   E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk                     Alfred, Lord Tennyson

   #include<stddisclaimer.h>

   My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typoes, and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:19:14 -0000
From: "MindShift Design" <mindshift@usa.net>
Subject: RE: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?

> So how long would a player have to respond?  A couple days?  A couple
> hours?  Nothing like being in the middle of an important battle or other
> event and then losing out because I have duty and can't get home to my
> computer, or have to get under way for a few days....

Because the game is turn based and turns set at a specific period of time
(up to the licensees of the game, but usually around 7 days) things are made
easier. All combat is resolved before the end of a turn. Generally a turn is
made up of a number of commands that you can issue - initiating a combat
would use one of them. Once the combat is over, and your position survives,
you would continue onto the next command that you issued.

Each player position also has a 'flee factor' so that when they take a
certain amount of damage, they attempt to initiate self-preservation and
leave the combat in the quickest way possible. In a game of Traveller, this
could be landing on a planet, firing thrusters and escaping the battle zone,
or jumping straight to FTL. Each game is different.

Also each character in a game not only has combat skills, but can specialise
those skills. There are also a series of options that you can set for combat
using a 'combat sheet'. Simply select the options you want to use for the
coming battle and they are initiated - these include, stunning or killing
your victims, frightening rather than hurting them, targeting options as
well as retreat and other options.

Regards

- --
Jason Paul McCartan					ICQ: 16802661
MindShift Design Game Studios			AIM: Japem
mindshift@usa.net
http://members.xoom.com/mindshift

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:16:50 -0500
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Bagpipes in todays modern army

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> The SCA is *all* too familiar with these issues, because even though
> our "weapons" are lighter than the real thing, and have a broader
> striking area, we have found it necessary to set up *strict* standards
> for "minimum armor" so as to avoid serious injuries. And even a great
> kilt doesn't come *close*.

Well, since Force = Mass * Acceleration, you can still do as much damage.
You've decreased the mass, allowing those swords and staves to be whipped
about much faster and still do signficant damage.  And there isn't much you can
do add drag.

> Contrary to popular belief, chainmail is *not* that encumbering. It
> doesn't hinder your ability to bend. It does add weight, but it's far
> better distributed than (say) a field pack.

Well, there may some dispute here.  My academic sources say the
average suit of chainmail wieghed 60-75 pounds and it was all borne
on the shoulders.  Whereas plate mail, commonly depicted as very
encumbering, was actually very good at distributing weight over
the entire body and was actually fairly light.


Which gets me back to Ob. Trav:
Body armor.  I think the rules in FFS, and even FFS2, are very weak
on the materials available at higher tech levels.  Although I do
appreciate the body armor creation rules in FFS1, the flexible
body armor materials available stops at TL8 (ballistic weave)
It seems to me (and I should probably just develop something)
that higher TLs will have better quality flexible armor materials.
After all, we know have Real World (tm) improved kevlar
that will stop a .357 Magnum round at pointblank, and not even
knock a large man back (although braced).

I also have a problem with the -1 Agility for rigid plates on
any part of the torso.  It seems to me that smaller plate
inserts wouldn't hamper movement so much.

- --
Bloo
Resounding Technology
Creators of RogerWilco
http://www.resounding.com/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:48:56 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Most Recent Nuclear War 

> Something I stumbled across on the web, on 
> http://www.nonviolence.org/vitw/fastforlifedoc2.html  :
> 
> "Preparations are in progress for Hiroshima Day actions dramatizing a little
> known fact- the Gulf War was a nuclear war. America and Britain fired about 
> 350 tons of depleted uranium weapons, considered useful by the military 
> because of an unusual ability to destroy tanks. Almost certainly, the 
> radioactive dust produced on impact caused the "Gulf War Syndrome" which 
> has sickened over 200,000 Americans and an unknown number of Iraqis."
> 
> Is this antinuclear activist group just going overboard here because the 
> weapon has the hateful word "uranium" in it? I've never heard anything before 
> about depleted uranium rounds being any kind of radiation or contamination 
> hazard.

Thing is, *NONE* of the Czech bio/chem warfare experts who were in the Gulf 
War came down with Gulf War Syndrome.  These guys are considered the world's 
best at detecting and responding to biohazards on the battle field.  It's 
generally accepted that Gulf War Syndrome is due to Iraqi bioweapons that were 
partially destroyed , allowing the active agents to escape.

> ObTrav: If they hate the depleted uranium rounds, wait 'till we show them
> the (undepleted) Californium ones....<G>

Or the onesium rounds.  Though with the extremely limited availiability of onesium, these rounds would be scarce.

Question...  How vulnerable to Dreaded Beachball laser fire would depleted uranium 'crowbars' a la THOR be?  Would the uranium ablate too drastically at the power levels used by point defense lasers or what?

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:22:07 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...

Greetings, All,

I'm looking for information on how to present starship combat in a 
more fluid manner.

I'm sure we've all been there at some point in time; trying to bring
new players into the fold.  This is no exception.  My players are
relatively new to s/f gaming, and they get bogged down with the 20
minute turns and related concepts from Traveller starship combat. 
It seems that the more realistic dimensions of Traveller's starship
combat does not jibe with their perceptions of the "dog fight"
scenarios of Star Wars, Babylon 5, and Star Trek.  They're used to 
quick melee combat, and want to handle starship combat on the same 
time scale.

Does anyone have any recommendations of how to (at least partially)
combat the players' initial resistance?

I've tried to explain the vast distances involved, and the need for 
time to pass to see measurable change in relative position, but they 
keep getting caught on things like:  "What do you mean, I can only 
fire once every 20 minutes?"  (And they don't buy the "Many shots are 
launched/fired, but only a few hit" theory.  These are the same 
players that have problems with AD&D one minute combat rounds, and 
they're pulling the same arguments and resistance to counter any 
discussions on the time scale in Traveller.)

I did find several links to a webpage discussing Roleplaying Starship 
Combat, but all the links are dead.  If that would help, I'd love to 
access that information if anyone still has a copy of it on file 
somewhere.

I've considered the boring exercise of breaking it down to one minute 
and even 12 second turns (I use the HERO System due to player psych 
lims), and showing them how unexciting it would be, but they are 
apparently caught in the glamour of SW/ST/B5 combat scenes.

Any help in this would be appreciated.

In Service,
Jason "Flynn" Kemp
============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer I
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:06:44 -0800
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: a few new pics on my site

For your perusal, I've uploaded a few more pics to my site.  These are for
the SJG project that I've mentioned before, but the finished product for SJG
is cropped, re-sized, and formatted differently, thus I feel OK posting
them.  And one of them couldn't be used for it 'cause it wouldn't crop,
re-size, or format right to be able to use.

Best Regards,
Jesse DeGraff
www.vision-forge-graphics.com/trav.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:12:29 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Admin Form Response [OFFTOPIC]

>Just in from Clif's ISP...  So if people really want Clif off the TML, let
>us not bother Rob, let us do it ourselves...  *weg*


Please, just let it die for the time being.

My own request? Please don't bother him at the moment. With the month off,
maybe he'll come to his senses. Losing _anyone_ from the Traveller
community, IMHO, is a major loss. IMHO, trying to get a service provider to
drop someone should be saved as a complete last resort, when things go from
insults to threats. I don't want to take advantage of the average ISP's fear
of litigation for personal vengeance.


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
Looking for other Traveller players in your area?
Looking to run a PBEM game? Check out:
http://www.pil.net/~semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:47:42 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?)

Seth Kimmel said:

>Ob Trav: why let only the Aslan have all the fun. Let anyone do-dad up
their
>personal effects, like a personal trademark. A good GM can have fun with
this.
>(you were recognised by the fancy paintjob on your ship, and by the fancy
>tooled syntho-leather gunbelt you wore dirtside...)


I'm a big believer in this myself. Scouts IMTU are easily identifiable from
a distance as Scouts, just due to their own personal decorations, usually
being a clashing mishmash of items and stuff borrowed from different worlds.
On one planet in the subsector I'm working on there's a polluted atmosphere,
and anybody who ventures out into the outside has to wear filter masks.
Pretty basic, but these folks have prefected decorating their masks to an
art!

And so on.


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
Looking for other Traveller players in your area?
Looking to run a PBEM game? Check out:
http://www.pil.net/~semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:44:20 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment (Re: Interest in a Traveller PBM/PBeM ?) 

> In a message dated 1/10/99 3:28:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, semo@pil.net
> writes:
> 
> << Even imperialized Aslan would tend to decorate their own weapons with
> little
>  aesthetic touches, IMHO. >>
> 
> I own a S + W model 10 revolver made in 1962. The blueing is coming off in
> places form zillions of holstering-unholsterings. I would LOVE to have it
> decorated with engravings and scroll work when I have it reblued. Customizing
> a weapon is cool...:-).
> 
> Ob Trav: why let only the Aslan have all the fun. Let anyone do-dad up their
> personal effects, like a personal trademark. A good GM can have fun with this.
> (you were recognised by the fancy paintjob on your ship, and by the fancy
> tooled syntho-leather gunbelt you wore dirtside...)

One of my *other* PBEM characters, in Nick's game 'Star Viking Legacy', has a 
highly customised high tech 'skinsuit' that's been worked over for max 
efficiency.  He also had some artwork done to it so that it was easier to 
distinguish him at a distance just by looking at his suit painting, simular to 
the Belters in Niven's 'Known Space' universe do, for exactly that reason.

FWIW, this guy's name is Gil Hamilton.  <grin>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:46:34 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: real-world railguns

>> Probably the most "operational" one is 6m long, designed to fit
into a
>> main battle tank turret.
>> The power supply ( an MHD ) is mounted on  two seperate tracked
>> vehicles, one for the MHD, the other a bank of capacitors.
>
>Slight problem. The impact energy is equal to the power input *minus*
>both losses in the gun *and* losses due to air resistance.

So ?

There would still be more kinetic energy on impact in one of these
than there is
in a standard APDS round, which has the same draw-backs and is even
less efficient at trransfering it's energy to it's projectile.

>There are also limits on the acceleration, mostly due to materials
>strength. I've attended talks by folks who worked on them at Lawrence
>Livermore labs. They had to quit using metal projectile because the
>metal would *flow* under its own "weight". And then jam in the
rails...
>oops!

Looks like we're talking about completely different things, the ones I
was referring to
use a 100g solid tungsten projectile with a sabot, see
http://www.utexas.edu/research/cem/rd/rd01/01.html

I susupect you're thinking of mass drivers, the ones that use plastic
and carbon cubes and such, not electromagnetic rail guns

>> Yes,  the whole system weighs several tonnes, but the turret itself
is
>> lighter than a normal MBT turret,  (no need for the heavy breech
block
>> of a conventional gun)and the power requirement could be provided
by
>> generators that have already been orbited.  Rail-guns need much
less
>> power than destructive lasers, which have also been seriously
proposed
>> as orbital weapons.
>
>But a rail gun that is effective against something *other* than
>thin-skinned aircraft or missiles is gonna take a *lot* of power.

No more than we have already discussed, and nowhere near as much power
as a _laser_
that is designed to attack something other than thin-skinned aircraft
or missiles.

In fact, a rail gun designed to destroy modern AFVs can be powered by
the same energy required to power a laser designed to take out
thin-skinned aircraft or missiles.

>Ammo is actually fairly light. Since the damage depends on KE
(.5MV^2)
>velocity is more important than mass.
>
>a 1 gram BB at 10,000 m/s is better than a 10 gram bullet at 1000
m/s.

But it's less likely to hit than a 100g spin-stabillised projectile,
Also, the longer the projectile the more the electromagnetic field has
to interact with, a spherical shape is very hard to accelerate
compared to a cylinder.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1412
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 11 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1413



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ? 
Re: Inverse lasers and reality
Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ?
Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...
Re: Insults and Name Calling (On-topic)
Re: Most Recent Nuclear War
Re: Inverse lasers and reality
Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...
Re: a few new pics on my site
Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ?
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1391
Re: jumpspace recursion
Re: Military Vacations
Re: Aslan equipment
Re: escape velocity
Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...
T5's competition (was: In Defense of T4)
Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...
Re: TNE 9mm test (was: In Defence of T4)
Re: Most Recent Nuclear War

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:14:42 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ? 

> > You won't get rid of *all* the "taint" that way. Posibly not even
> > enough to make the air safe to breathe for extended periods. Best bet
> > is to pass it thru an *alkaline* solution (say "limewater" (CAO2 in
> > solution). The sulfites and sulfates will react with the calcium and
> > precipitate out as gypsum (calcium sulfate).
> 
> So we take possible contaminated water, and add an alkaline to it, until
> satureated. (The alkaline will remove any weak acid from the contaninated
> water first). Then pass the air through it untill the water sulution is PH7,
> and we end up with pure water, clean air, and gypsum. Is this right ? Is
> Gypsum useful for anything ?

Making cement.  Congratulations, you've just become the construction supply 
center of your subsector.  <grin>
 
> If the world were a water world, where would you find the alkaline ? apart
> from off world.

Limestone on the ocean floor.  Or sea shells or coral.

> Im trying to wright up a world, that would survive the long night, on it's
> own, at around TL 5, 6, or 7 (the lower the better) with a small population
> (pop code 5), although it is looking more like I will have to change the taint
> (something I don't realy want to do).

Just ask around for your local chemist, and power it all by solar.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:41:41 -0600
From: Todd Zircher <zirto@bdol10.indepth.com>
Subject: Re: Inverse lasers and reality

Rob_Prior wrote:
>
> Whatever you used would induce a current in _all_ conductors,
> not just speakers. Which would pretty  well knock out the
> electronics and jam the sensors, so if it could be shielded
> against then designers would shield, which means that it
> wouldn't work on most ships.
>
> Now, if such a weapons can exist it would make a dandy pirate
> weapon, because the pirates could 'stun' a ship by disrupting
> its electronics, and then capture it while it is dead in space.
> (This is one reason I would assume all ships would shield against
> induced currents. Another is that passing near a gass giant will
> induce some pretty large voltages, which a sensible designer would
> shield against too.)

Good point, all.  So, we can scratch it's use against sapce craft.
Same point can be made for combat vehicles dirt side.  How about
infantry equipment?  Would the shielding on a co-axial cable be
sufficent to protect them for such electro-magnetic vandalism?

- --
TAZ
eans that it
> wouldn't work on most ships.
>
> Now, if such a weapons can exist it would make a dandy pirate
> weapon, because the pirates could 'stun' a ship by disrupting
> its electronics, and then capture it while it is dead in space.
> (This is one reason I would assume all ships would shield against
> induced currents. Another is that passing near a gass giant will
> induce some pretty large voltages, which a sensible designer would
> shield against too.)

Good point, all.  So, we can scratch it's use against sapce craft.
Same point can be made for combat vehicles dirt side.  How about
infantry equipment?  Would the shielding on a co-axial cable be
sufficent to protect them for such electro-magnetic vandalism?

- --
TAZ
lism?

- --
TAZ

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:44:15 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ?

Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:46:25 +0000 (GMT), Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>

>I'm writing up a planet, with a sulpher compound trace in the atmosphear.
>I assume that an easy way to filter the compunds out would be to pass the
>air through water   to produce solphuric acid. Is this right ?

>Sulpher taint would also mean that the seas were realy weak acid, and if I
>remember my chemistry lessons, all you need to do to remove the acid is
>add metal, but there must be less expensive way to do it, distilling ?
>
>So to live, you pass the air through tainted water, to get good air, and
>then distil the result to get pure water with a bi product of sulphuric
>acid.

Many, not all, sulfur compounds will be removed by water.  It
is easier to neutralize the acid with lye (sodium hydroxide).
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:47:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...

 
> scenarios of Star Wars, Babylon 5, and Star Trek.  They're used to 
> quick melee combat, and want to handle starship combat on the same 
> time scale.
 
Old B5 used to be great--a shot of a NArn Cruiser shooting, then a
cut to a shot of the target cut in half. Now every damn fight has
both combatants in the same frame (even as the weapons officer gives
a range in thousands of klicks. Oh well.

> keep getting caught on things like:  "What do you mean, I can only 
> fire once every 20 minutes?"  (And they don't buy the "Many shots are 
> launched/fired, but only a few hit" theory.  These are the same 

What theory? That's the way it is. You could allow them to fire once
every fraction of a second and have most shots miss, I guess :-)

> I've considered the boring exercise of breaking it down to one minute 
> and even 12 second turns (I use the HERO System due to player psych 
> lims), and showing them how unexciting it would be, but they are 
> apparently caught in the glamour of SW/ST/B5 combat scenes.
 
B5 is the only one that is even close to traveller. SW/ST ain't
nearly as hard SF. (and traveller is only kind of hard SF to start
with :-)

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:11:10 GMT
From: jzeitlin@cyburban.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Insults and Name Calling (On-topic)

One thing that all of the posts I've seen in this thread seem to
be doing is presuming that the target of the insults is familiar
enough with human/Imperial/Terran culture to recognize that some
of these would _be_ insults.  If an Aslan isn't aware of (a) the
perceived resemblance between himself and a Terran lion, and
between the lion and a housecat, and (b) the relationship between
humans and housecats, the Aslan will simply be uncomprehending
when you do the "here, kitty" thing on him.  Analogously for
Vargr, K'kree, Zhodani, Solomani, et cetera.  Note that "et
cetera" includes other humans from other cultures as well; the
problems and the techniques I describe in this article are no
less applicable to other humans from Terra than to any documented
Traveller societies.

The most effective insults require that the _insulter_ know the
_insultee's_ culture.  That way, you are telling your target "I
know how you expect people to behave and to think, and I don't
think much of it", _in_addition_to_ any insult inherent in the
phrase used.  Thus, it would be _very_ insulting to an Aslan
warrior (a male) for a human to suggest, for example, that he
(the Aslan) is "better as a technician than as a warrior".  Aslan
technicians are female; the separation of gender roles is _very_
strong in Aslan society, to the point that even outcasts - who
couldn't survive without learning gender-inappropriate skills -
would never admit to knowing any of them, even to another
outcast.  You can bet the farm that an Aslan warrior would find
this highly insulting; whether you'd survive long enough to
collect the bet is an interesting problem in itself.  Additional
effectiveness is added when you can deliver the insult in the
target's own language, colloquially; it emphasizes your presumed
knowledge of the target's culture.

The key is not to fix on something that you perceive in their
characteristics or culture that dovetails with yours; it is to
lock onto something so key in _their_ culture that there can be
no possible mistake that you know exactly what you're saying
(again, colloquial knowledge of the target's language helps
here).  It also helps if you already know what some of the worst
insults within their culture are; you might get an idea of what
subjects are taboo even in insults.  Then, use those subjects.
(No warranties are expressed or implied as to the survivability
of such usages.  Author disclaims all responsibility for
reactions or results.  Have fun.)

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:02:51 -0600
From: Todd Zircher <zirto@bdol10.indepth.com>
Subject: Re: Most Recent Nuclear War

Anthony Jackson wrote:
<<
Note that DU may be being phased out anyway, there's some
evidence that its superior armor penetration has to do with
a rapid chemical reaction that occurs when it impacts
against steel, causing the metal to soften, and newer
armors can be constructed that don't behave in this way,
which means tungsten is just as good.
>>

[grain of salt alert]

I always prefered to think that the military used DU rounds
because they're economically and environmentally conscious
and they want to do their part in recycling uranium.  After
all, it's pretty expensive stuff.

As to the radioactive concerns, I've worn watches that
were more of a radiation hazard.  Of course, I've never
been on the receiving end of a GAU-8a (that 30mm gun
that the A-10 sports.)  So, once you strip off the steel
shell, it may be a different ball game.
- --
Todd "ex-Aircraft Armanent Systems Specialist" Zircher

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:09:11 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Inverse lasers and reality

Todd Zircher wrote:
> 
>
> Good point, all.  So, we can scratch it's use against sapce craft.
> Same point can be made for combat vehicles dirt side.  How about
> infantry equipment?  Would the shielding on a co-axial cable be
> sufficent to protect them for such electro-magnetic vandalism?

This 'electro-magnetic vandalism' is merely an application of an
Electromagnetic Pulse, EMP for short, and presumably all milspec systems
in a post TL-7 ish culture (ie: _after_ nuclear weapons are widely
deployed) would be hardened against it, since that's a major effect of a
nuclear blast.


- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:40:13 -0600
From: "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com>
Subject: Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...

> I'm looking for information on how to present starship combat in a 
> more fluid manner.

<snip>

You might want to check out Silent Death by ICE.  I find the combat 
system extremely fast and is quite fun to play.  You might even be 
able to come up with a simple conversion system for converting 
Traveller ship stats to Silent Death ship stats.


- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)

- - Encrypt your messages!
  That way only the government knows what you wrote!

- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!

- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)

- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto

- - Help Stop Forest Fires.  Outlaw Matches.

Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
     http://www.felixcafe.com/

- - - -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:52:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: a few new pics on my site

Hell on a grav cycle, Jesse!  That's some really cool stuff!  (I hope
you're not getting a big head from all this praise :-).  BTW, is it okay
to download and print these for personal use?  I want to make a Traveller
ref's screen for myself and your pics would be perfect.

Charles.

- -----
"Can anything truly meaningful be said in just a single line? Maybe, maybe
not." 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:02:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: What to do with your sulpher compund trace ?

	If you don't want to change the taint and can't find a good way to
filter it or anything, one solution is to modify the inhabitants instead
of the world. They don't have to be heavily changed, just adapted to the
taint, perhaps by having some sort of in-built filter mask and a
nictitating (sp?) membrane over their eyes to protect them (okay, I guess
those are fairly serious modifications).  Another possibility to have some
sort of genetically engineered symbiote help them out.

	I created a similar world once which had a very thin atmosphere. 
The locals had survived the Long Night in a variety of ways.  Some, seeing
the collapse coming, had modified themselves to have higher lung
capacities, higher red blood cell counts, and very black skin (for the
higher UV).  Another had created a kind of symbiotic lichen which grew on
their skin and fed oxygen into their bloodstream in return for other
nutrients.  Finally a third group had simply retreated to the deepest
caverns they could find and led a troglodytic existence. 

Just some ideas...

Charles.

PS. Isn't gypsum used in making concrete?

- -----
"Can anything truly meaningful be said in just a single line? Maybe, maybe
not." 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:19:34 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1391

I'm not sure but I think you missed one in there

>
>AD&D has gone thru several incarnations. 
>
>So I'd say we have this:
>

Chainmail   >Original ----+--- AD&D ----- AD&D 2nd  ----AD&D 3rd 
                             |
                            +--- "Basic D&D" (and follow ons). 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:21:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: jumpspace recursion

Hi all.

I've only been skimming this thread, so this may have already been
discussed, but I just had some ideas I thought I would share.  It's been
argued that a ship inside another can't jump because it's within the 100
diameter limit of the larger ship.  But there must be some sort of limit
as to what kinds of masses can prevent jump, otherwise errant bits of
space dust near the hull would cause ships to misjump all the time.  

One might counter-argue that dust near the ship is taken within the jump
bubble and jumps with the ship, but this is just beggin the question, as
the "jumping dust" is still to close to the "non-jumping dust" at the
threshold of the jump bubble?  Since the dust inside the bubble is part of
the jumping mass, wouldn't it have to be 100 diameters from the dust
outside? BTW, you can substitute "particle"  for dust in this context and
get the same argument. Actual grains of dust might be sparse enough to not
prevent jump, but what about photons and other particles with very small
mass?

I've always thought the original "100 diameter limit" was actually meant
to be a gravitational amplitude limit, and they just used diameters for
simplicity's sake.  A gravitational gradient limit still has the
dust/particle problem, I believe, as (if I understand the concept
correctly) the gradient around a particle is going to be just as steep as
around a planet.  

Just some ideas...
Charles.

- -----
"Can anything truly meaningful be said in just a single line? Maybe, maybe
not." 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:54:02 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Military Vacations

Dear Folks -

Tim wrote:
>
> I have been thinking about a Traveller campaign and started to wonder
> how to get military characters into an adventure without starting a
> war.

Simple - call it a "police action".  ;-)

More seriously:
     - check out the various assignments in Mercenary and High Guard
       (or just use the MT Player's Handbook) such as
       Counter-Insurgency, Patrol, etc;
     - create a number of scenarios based on these assignments:
          - small anti-guerilla (or anti-Ine Givar ;-) ops;
          - border patrol duty, such as:
               - customs;
               - anti-Sword World incursions;
               - contain a plague ship (and then try to explain to
                 other Impies why YOU are not plagued - old Challenge
                 idea!), etc;
          - military assignments to Efate;
          - security duty at one of the Imperial target-range planets,
            possibly involving being on the wrong end of a
            "friendly-fire" incident;
          - interdiction exercises (eg. at the site of the Battle of
            Two Suns);
          - put them in the Frozen Watch, only to be woken up in the
            middle of a live-fire "border incident" (hey, I _really_
            like this one - an idea for a freeform (LARP), anyone??);
          - Special Duty assignments:
               - Special Weapons school;
               - attaches to Imp allies/client states;
               - aides/bodyguards to a general/admiral who is
                 visiting the Darrians or Five Sisters etc...

If you want a mixed service bunch, have some as Navy and some as Marines,
serving in the same IN squadron. You can even add Scouts, serving aboard
attached auxiliaries.

Hmm, is that enough pointers?

Another thought is from an old Challenge article (#29??) - actually run the
PC's through military college and then start them in the service. Sorry, I
can't remember all the scenario ideas from this article at the moment -
maybe someone else can look them up?

Any more ideas, folks??
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:04:30 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment

Dear Folks -

I sent Keven's comments to my Aslan player, and he replied:

- ----------
It is highly likely that *anything* owned by an aslan would remain looking
like a mass-production item for long; especially for higher-caste males...

<^_->
- ----------
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:05:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: escape velocity

> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:09:26 -0700 (MST)
> From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
>  
> > Anybody got a quickie formula for calculating surface gravity laying 
> > around someplace?
>  
> F=GmM/r2 gives the force, F, due to gravity (G is the gravitational
> constant: 6.67E-11 (Nm^2/kg))
[snip]

This is the detailed, 'right' way to approach the problem.  Fortunately,
there's an incredibly useful simplification available.  Take p as the
body's density, Earth=1; r as its radius or diameter, Earth=1; g as the
surface gravitational acceleration, Earth=1. 

  g = pr

Really.  That's it.  Cool, huh? :)

- -- 
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      "The hills were burning, and the wind was raging; and the
       clock struck midnight in the Garden of Allah."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:10:20 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...

"Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us> writes:
>I'm looking for information on how to present starship combat in a 
>more fluid manner.
[snip]
>It seems that the more realistic dimensions of Traveller's starship
>combat does not jibe with their perceptions of the "dog fight"
>scenarios of Star Wars, Babylon 5, and Star Trek.  They're used to 
>quick melee combat, and want to handle starship combat on the same 
>time scale.
>
>Does anyone have any recommendations of how to (at least partially)
>combat the players' initial resistance?

I've used Mayday quite successfully to teach vector movement in physics
class. The kids have a ball, and a game lasts 5-10 minutes once they get
the hang of things. Can you find a copy of Mayday?  (This is essentially
the CT system with hexes instead of miniatures.)

You won't find anything that mimics SW/B5/ST and is realistic yet simple
as a melee combat, although the B5 system from Earthforce Sourcebook comes
close.

Dom (and others) can vouch for Full Thrust, although that is probably too
complicated for what you want to do. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:20:51 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: T5's competition (was: In Defense of T4)

>   WEG is still living on the edge, and TSR has pined and been re-animated by
> the Wicked Witch of the West (Coast). GDW closed in a dignified and orderly
> fashion, which puts them ahead of those groups. It remains to be seen
whether
> Alternity will succeed on any basis other than sheer advertising power,
which
> didn't save any TSR products that come to mind.

Yeah, of course.  WEGs problems weren't do to its industry habits, but to its
relationship with its parent company, no?   TSR could blame much of its woes
on that Williams person.   I said the dynamic was bigger than that, but my
point was just that the game will have to adapt.  That T5 must be more than
reprinted vanilla LBBs  that wouldn't be glanced at by the New Gamer (tm) if
it's displayed right next to a copy of Alternity or ST:TNG or SW:R&E or
Trinity, much less all of em (w/ the smaller competitors).   TNE was on par w/
anything from TSR at the time, but T4 (nor even G:T) couldn't say the same.
The real flashy stuff was just coming in IIRC.

> >do the same)...  But so far, concerning G:T, I see nothing on the horizon
> >except mostly a rehash of what has already gone before.  BtC (impoved
Spinward
> >Marches), Mercs & Far Trader?  (Book 4, Book 7).  Solomani Rim?  Aliens
> ...
> 
>   But seriously, you really think SJG won't pack a bit more info into what
> will probably be 144-page large-format books than went into a 52-page LBB?
> And that even before considering that these G:T sourcebooks shouldn't be
> rules heavy - which is precisely what Books 4 & 7 were providing?

I wasn't complaining about the lack of utility of the main G:T book (hardback,
i wouldn't touch the softback w/ the obviously fragile binding).  I knew it
wasn't going to have anything other than the sidebars, that I didn't pretty
much already have and/or want, from browsing the softback pretty thoroughly.
I'd buy it again.  I want to support Traveller and G:T (in that order),
especially for things that will work for me and my campaign.  BtC and Zhos and
Vargr should prove useful to my nascent Regency campaign.

There will be appropriately more material in Mercs & Far Trader as there is in
Btc as compared to the Spinward Marches, but i've been noticing a few errors
in BtC that aren't significant but are annoying.  I don't know if SJG is
adhering to a schedule it can't keep up with.  If it is, i think they shoul
purposely alter their schedule to 1/3 months or *something* to avoid obvious
similarities with IG.  I'm referring to things like the starmaps and the
red/amber zoning and the difference in practice on the maps and the
explanation of the key.  That sort of thing.  I don't expect a flawless and
flashy manuscript, but I am not the gronard who will buy anything just because
Traveller is stamped on teh cover somewhere.

That said, if Mercs and Far Trader live up to the expectations that are being
piled upon them, i'll most likely buy them, but only have after a fairly
thorough inspection in my FLGS.   : ) 


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:20:40 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...

> It seems that the more realistic dimensions of Traveller's starship
> combat does not jibe with their perceptions of the "dog fight"
> scenarios of Star Wars, Babylon 5, and Star Trek.  They're used to
> quick melee combat, and want to handle starship combat on the same
> time scale.

It won't be "realistic" with the capabilities of Traveller weapons and sensors
(which are what make the long distance ranges), but you could probably use the
vehicle rules for close in stuff?  Ranges would have to be much much shorter
and a general brain fart and/or deliberate ignoring of the long range
capabilities.  

> I've tried to explain the vast distances involved, and the need for
> time to pass to see measurable change in relative position, but they

I showed my players the cover of Brilliant Lances w/ the Aurora Clipper and
its escorts (who still probably wouldn't be in that tight formation unless
that was a seperate BR Task Force, which is still probably just an artistic
rendering) firing off way into the distance.  Then told em a bit bout the
ranges and the size of the hexes and acceleration measured in Gs.  Also the
sizes of various planets and Sol (mentioned in BL and BR).   I've since
acquired the BL designers notes, which would help too.  

> keep getting caught on things like:  "What do you mean, I can only
> fire once every 20 minutes?"  (And they don't buy the "Many shots are

You're using G:T or another system, i take it.   For BL it's 10 shots/ 30
minutes at standard levels.  Overpowering is possible to a ROF of 800 / 30
minutes for lasers (though that requires massive power and extra design size).
Outstanding success means two hits.  The others are ranging shots, etc.  

> launched/fired, but only a few hit" theory.  These are the same
> players that have problems with AD&D one minute combat rounds, and
> they're pulling the same arguments and resistance to counter any
> discussions on the time scale in Traveller.)

Hmm... combative and argumentative players...  "Because them is the rules"
won't work? : ) 

> I did find several links to a webpage discussing Roleplaying Starship
> Combat, but all the links are dead.  If that would help, I'd love to
> access that information if anyone still has a copy of it on file
> somewhere.

I would usually have at least one of the BL/BR maps always unfolded and w/ the
planet/whatever there.  When there was a bogey detection, i would determine
distance and then unfold the appropriate maps (or go for the big rolled up
mat-one i got at my FLGS) and place the bogey counter.  I never found BL
cumbersome like many here apparently did, but of course, i've always used BR
for NPC ships.

> I've considered the boring exercise of breaking it down to one minute
> and even 12 second turns (I use the HERO System due to player psych
> lims), and showing them how unexciting it would be, but they are
> apparently caught in the glamour of SW/ST/B5 combat scenes.

Hmm... sounds like they're out for vehicle combat in space.  That's what I'd
advise, if u're not going to be able to get them "real" Traveller space
combat.  Hope that's useful.  


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:20:44 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: TNE 9mm test (was: In Defence of T4)

> > Now, i'm not permanetly adjusted w/ TNE mechanics.  The game system isn't
> > perfect (though it's as close to that chimera as me and my gaming groups
have
> > yet discovered).
> 
>   I have this standard test I try on all combat sustems I come across. I
> call it the "9mm test". It invelves using the game mechanics to shoot an
> unarmored man in the chest with a modern 9mm pistol from a few meters
> away. The results should be very painful, quite messy and potentially (but
> not invariably) lethal. TNE failed this test, other systems have passed,
> so I use those systems. I did kinda like the TNE character generation
> system, though.

This has been gone over ad infinitum.  This also goes into real handgun
lethality (another done to death topic).  Using the instant-kill quick kill
(as opposed to the recommended double damage) would simulate "the 9mm test"
accurately enough IMO.  This ignores using different dice for firearms damage
(d10s is what i used, though i jokingly considered d12 to both increase
lethality and use the dice i hardly ever use <g>) and using something like the
T2k/M2k/or DC "quick kills,"  of which i prefer the T2k (increases wound level
to the next step).    

Again, like i said, not perfect, but as close as we've found for us.  A shock
type rule might've been in order.  I once experimented by cutting the hit
values by half but found accumulated damage became too lethal.    Maybe
something simple like only half hit capacity from any one particular wound?
Or a certain damage threshold?  I don't find it broken, but i can see how some
might dislike it, especially w/ the differing perceptions and opinions on
handguns and their lethality.  

> > I do think d20 allows a better curve than xd6.
> 
>   Excuse me? I'd have to disagree, d20 has a linear probability
> distribution. It's the xd6:s that give curvilinear distibutions. For me
> 3d6 (as in GURPS) seems to give the best spread, but this is of course
> strictly a matter of taste.

D'oh!  You're right, of course.  That's what I meant (i know, yeah right).  It
*is* a matter of taste.  I prefer the mechanics and operations of the d20 vs
xd6.


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:15:39 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Most Recent Nuclear War

From: Anthony Jackson 
> Walter Smith writes:
> > Something I stumbled across on the web, on 
> > 
> > Is this antinuclear activist group just going overboard here because
the 
> > weapon has the hateful word "uranium" in it? I've never heard anything
> > before  about depleted uranium rounds being any kind of radiation or
> > contamination  hazard.
> 
> DU isn't a particularly significant radiation hazard, but uranium is a
highly
> reactive metal, and can cause heavy metal poisoning -- it's more toxic
than
> lead.  However, there's no shortage of things in the burning wreckage of
a tank
> which are contamination hazards, so its not clear how much it really adds
to
> the risk.

In either case, hundreds of tons of this stuff is still sitting around in
Iraq and Kuwait.  There's a school of thought that thinks dropping
low-level radioactive waste on other countries is a problem.
 
> Note that DU may be being phased out anyway, there's some evidence that
its
> superior armor penetration has to do with a rapid chemical reaction that
occurs
> when it impacts against steel, causing the metal to soften, and newer
armors
> can be constructed that don't behave in this way, which means tungsten is
just
> as good.
> 

Probably a good thing.

> In any case, the concept that use of DU makes a war 'nuclear' is rather
absurd.

Well, Vietnam was a 'chemical' war.  Agent Orange contamination is still a
problem there.

The link between "Gulf War Syndrome" and DU has been speculated on.  It's
not proven either way.  I tend to suspect the chemical connection, myself. 
There's also the theories about the undertested drugs the US, but not some
of the other allied troops were given.

OBTRAV:  Cleaning up worlds after wars is a real hassle.  Even with dampers
and so on, it would probably take years.  There are probably worlds in the
Spinward Marches where they're still cleaning up after the FFW.  PCs could
encounter contaminated sites, that, of course, they have to enter.

SuSAG, the main CBW system producer in the Imperium would more or less
permanently be dealing with lawsuits and threatened lawsuits.  SuSAG's
methods of doing so aren't necessarily nice.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1413
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 11 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1414



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: En Garde:  Traveller's first combat system?
Re: Ihatei Motivations 
Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...
Re: Golf (was: In Defence of T4)
Re: Military Vacations
Re: Most Recent Nuclear War 
Re: Golf (was: In Defence of T4) 
Test Msg #2
Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...
Re: T5's competition
Re: a few new pics on my site 
Re: Aslan equipment 
Comments:  FASA Adventure Class Ships, Vol 2
HG Warfare Question
Red Lining
Off Topic: D&D and versions
Grump, Grump
Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat... 
Re: T5's competition
Re: Bagpipes in todays modern army

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:19:09 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: En Garde:  Traveller's first combat system?

No interest?  I won't pursue it then.

There are problems anyway.  Trying to rewrite the "Female Companionship"
rules would inevitably lead to a "Sex and Traveller" debate.

En Garde is a natural born PBEM, though.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au


- ----------
> From: Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: En Garde:  Traveller's first combat system?
> Date: Tuesday, 12 January 1999 1:16

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:44:30 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Ihatei Motivations 

From: Joe Webb 
> >Well, I'm not sure "worthless failures" is used, is it?
> Page 24 of BtC "Landless Aslan males are failures, worthless to society."
> IMHO, this contradicts G:T Aslan library data that the landless are
indeed
> the lowest class, but are farmers, laborers, craftsmen and factory
workers.
> Not exactly worthless to society.  Granted, females would make up the
vast
> majority of those jobs, just from sheer numbers, but per G:T those males
> aren't worthless.  BtC says different.

BtC also contradicts CT Alien Module 1, where it describes some junior sons
in leading positions in their clan, and one of them indulging in a little
treachery.  I would say that the statement in BtC is too hard line, but
it's really up to the individual GM.

> >When resources are plentiful, you take more chances with the second
sons.
> Perhaps an economic boom in the Heirate could explain the sudden upsurge
> in Ihatei activity?
> 
> I agree.  Ihatei ships, no matter what size or how old, don't come cheap.
> You only have more sons when the risks to society aren't as great, ie the
> economy is doing good.

Alien Module 1 describes a case where a clan couldn't afford to send out a
fleet.  The second sons hung around in junior and advisory positions.  They
weren't entirely happy about it, but they did it.

> IMTU, infighting among Ihatei over prize worlds is what slowed Aslan
> expansion.  Thats why the Florani found a wrecked ship to get the jump
> drive from, and not an invasion fleet.  Also, the Glorious Empire, a
> heretical Aslan state smack in the middle of the TR, served to keep the
> Aslan hedged rimward.

AM1 has an ihatei fleet taking over existing Aslan worlds.

> Ihatei raiders could get past the GE, especially if the GE is troubled
with
> slave revolts.  But this would be only  random, one shot affairs, not a
> wave of invasions.  In the TNE timeline, lack of Imperial support allowed
> the GE to be overrun, the booty from the GE funded a lot of Ihatei and
> regular clan fleets to push into Imperial space.  This isn't happening in
> the G:T timeline.  Only long range spikes are hitting Motmos etc.
> Population pressures are making more Ihatei spikes, but it won't get too
> serious as long as the GE is still there, but its coming under a lot of
> pressure too.

Well, there is regular Imperial/Aslan trade, so the Aslan know the way.

I would suspect, and have suggested before, that the smaller client states
in Trojan Reach, such as the Senlis Foederate are having a really bad time.
 It would be even worse for those that aren't Imperial allies, like the
Belgardian Sojourn.  

Maybe it would be worth converting the canon Trojan Reach subsectors to GT
format?
 
> >I'm not sure I picture Aslan sons knocking off their superiors too
often.
> Badly phrased.  Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that, exactly.  Its more
> along the lines of knocking off the neighbors clan leaders and taking the
> neighbors land.

We have examples of both.  The fratricidal example was clearly socially
unacceptable.

> Alan stated "Ihatei fleets are how clans extend their holdings."
> I disagree that they see it that way, exactly.  I think the Heirate
> actually believes that line (used a lot by the Serbians during their war
- -
> "Those are extremist guerrillas, they have no connection to our
government.
> We think its a shame they are killing our enemies...").  Due to Aslan
> psychology/culture, they actually believe this stuff.

Maybe.  But the clans do war against each other, and it's a safe bet
captured territory gets colonised.

> >No males?  But then where do your fighting forces come from?
> Oh, yeah, right.  I'm thinking the transports are the support your clan
> gives you after you are more or less established.  I'd say an Ihatei
fleet
> would consist of a ragtag assortment of attack craft and troop transports
> for ground assaults.  And yes, I forgot about females having to be in the
> initial attack units too.  ; /  And likely in numbers sufficient for a
> modest harem, if successful.  : )  Once considered clan, THEN the
colonial
> transports start arriving, the ones without males.

Transports also carry equipment.  Potentially they can go for a year or
more outside Hierate borders.  Also, most colonisation is, by preference,
peaceful.

Ihatei movements are more like mass migrations, rather than invasions,
IMHO.  Take a look at the "Barbarian invasions" of the Roman Empire.
 
> Sorry this got so long, too much coffee today!

No, an interesting post on an interesting topic.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:32:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Sword Worlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...

- ---Jason Kemp <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us> wrote:
> I'm sure we've all been there at some point in time; trying to bring
> new players into the fold.  This is no exception.  My players are
> relatively new to s/f gaming, and they get bogged down with the 20
> minute turns and related concepts from Traveller starship combat. 

Get out a copy of Mayday and let them go at it.  Mayday uses 100
minute rounds and takes two hours to play through.  After that they'll
be cured.  20 minutes will be lightning rounds!

:-p





==
- ------------------------><>------------------------
List your Traveller cargoes for sale or wanted
on the "Subsidized Merchant" page - 
http://surf.to/traveller-trader 


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:20:46 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Golf (was: In Defence of T4)

> > On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:
> >> If T5 is going to do nothing but cater to the middle aged grognards
> who have clung to the game of their youth, which seems to be nothing
> but a diminishing herd, i'll have NO reason to support it.<<
> 
> Hey!  I resemble that remark.  By the same token, however, if T:TNE
> and Alternity are what we have to look forward to, I might as well
> take up golf_now_. ;-]

LOL.   I'd advise taking up golf anyways.  A good game... ahem sport... to
play.  : )  
Stick w/ what you like.  My point is that what you like isn't what the teen or
new gamer likes, is all.  No offense intended, though I am well described as
"sensitivity challenged" or some such, if not by a more colorful and Clif-like
remark.  ; )


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:57:49 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Military Vacations

> From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
> Another thought is from an old Challenge article (#29??) - actually run
the
> PC's through military college and then start them in the service. Sorry,
I
> can't remember all the scenario ideas from this article at the moment -
> maybe someone else can look them up?
 
This was the article I mentioned in my little rave about En Garde.

> Any more ideas, folks??

Skirmishes on the Vargr, or Aslan(!) border.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:48:05 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Most Recent Nuclear War 

> I always prefered to think that the military used DU rounds
> because they're economically and environmentally conscious
> and they want to do their part in recycling uranium.  After
> all, it's pretty expensive stuff.

FWIU, the key word here is 'depleted', as in, 'barely radioactive anymore', as 
in, 'we used it up & now it's just layin aorund'.  It's dense and carries a 
lotta kinetic energy.  Good enough for government work...

> As to the radioactive concerns, I've worn watches that
> were more of a radiation hazard.  Of course, I've never
> been on the receiving end of a GAU-8a (that 30mm gun
> that the A-10 sports.)  So, once you strip off the steel
> shell, it may be a different ball game.

I've never seen one of these puppies up close.  I'll take your word on their 
radioactivity, as I didn't notice them pulling the ammo out of lead lined 
boxes on CNN during the war.  What I *will* say is, if I was hit with a 30 mm 
antiarmour round, the *LAST* thing I'd be worried about is how radioactive the 
round is.  Course, I'd most likely be *dead*.  30 mm is a big round that's 
gonna make a big hole.  *NOT* something you'd wanna take elk hunting; there 
wouldn't be much elk left after you hit it...

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:57:59 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Golf (was: In Defence of T4) 

> > > On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:
> > >> If T5 is going to do nothing but cater to the middle aged grognards
> > who have clung to the game of their youth, which seems to be nothing
> > but a diminishing herd, i'll have NO reason to support it.<<
> > 
> > Hey!  I resemble that remark.  By the same token, however, if T:TNE
> > and Alternity are what we have to look forward to, I might as well
> > take up golf_now_. ;-]
> 
> LOL.   I'd advise taking up golf anyways.  A good game... ahem sport... to
> play.  : )  

Can't do.  I'm a bit too crippled up to pull it off.  <frown>  Though mebbe if 
I used that 12 gauge driver I saw in a movie once...

> Stick w/ what you like.  My point is that what you like isn't what the teen or
> new gamer likes, is all.  No offense intended, though I am well described as
> "sensitivity challenged" or some such, if not by a more colorful and Clif-like
> remark.  ; )

ObTrav:  Do they still golf in the 3I?  Are they still exporting Scots 
greenkeepers to service these golf courses?  In the Principality of Caledon 
(an Imperial client state in Reavers' Deep that tried staying neutral during 
the first part of the Rebellion), golf is alive and well.  *The* premier golf 
event is the Andrew's Cup Invitational on Caledon itself, held once a year for 
the last *thousand* years!!

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:29:17 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Test Msg #2

        It looks like I got unsubscribed somehow...  Testing re-subscription...

        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:06:56 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...

> From: Rob Prior 
> I've used Mayday quite successfully to teach vector movement in physics
> class. The kids have a ball, and a game lasts 5-10 minutes once they get
> the hang of things. Can you find a copy of Mayday?  (This is essentially
> the CT system with hexes instead of miniatures.)

The Mayday rulebook has a place of honour on my desk, between Books 3 and
4.  Truly, it is righteous.

Alan Bradley,
Follower of the True Faith.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:34:30 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: T5's competition

>From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
>Subject: T5's competition (was: In Defense of T4)
...
>point was just that the game will have to adapt.  That T5 must be more than
>reprinted vanilla LBBs  that wouldn't be glanced at by the New Gamer (tm) if
>it's displayed right next to a copy of Alternity or ST:TNG or SW:R&E or
...

  IIRC, T5 (or even a colourized TTB) would have some real advantages over
Alternity, as the latter is rules only (_two_ books required? $$!) with the
background being separate. The rules do seem well done, but it still seemed
to me that there was a distincy air of space opera involved - well, more than
is customary in Traveller products, anyway :>

  Sure, I wouldn't complain if a new Traveller rules book had colour illo's
(although page after page of Foss art in a section in the back...), but I'd
prefer content and layout before the art goes colour or takes up more than 10%
of the page area (not necessarily counting diagrams). I picked up a lot of later
TSR product second-hand last year, and the amount of space wasted on blank half-
columns and lousy artwork was absurd - in some cases the amount of artwork was
so excessive that the product would've been compromised even if the surplus
weren't recycled or bargain rate filler.

...
>There will be appropriately more material in Mercs & Far Trader as there is in
>Btc as compared to the Spinward Marches, but i've been noticing a few errors
>in BtC that aren't significant but are annoying.  I don't know if SJG is
>adhering to a schedule it can't keep up with.  If it is, i think they shoul
...

  It seems that there were unfortunate (and possibly unavoidable) time
pressures on some of the early releases, and Mercs may be one of them;
however, that problem appears to have gone away, and the Far Trader
sections that have been play-tested to date were flogged within an inch*
of their lives with plenty of time to spare.

 *(_not_ ~2.5 cm - this is G:T, after all)

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:42:13 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: a few new pics on my site 

> For your perusal, I've uploaded a few more pics to my site.  These are for
> the SJG project that I've mentioned before, but the finished product for SJG
> is cropped, re-sized, and formatted differently, thus I feel OK posting
> them.  And one of them couldn't be used for it 'cause it wouldn't crop,
> re-size, or format right to be able to use.

Some nifty stuff, there, dood.

I'm duly impressed.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:41:21 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment 

> Dear Folks -
> 
> I sent Keven's comments to my Aslan player, and he replied:
> 
> ----------
> It is highly likely that *anything* owned by an aslan would remain looking
> like a mass-production item for long; especially for higher-caste males...

Um, *which* comments?  I think I've done like 4 or 5 replies on this thread.

I kinda wanna know how I'm gonna get filleted by the next wandering Aslan...

<grin>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:36:33 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Comments:  FASA Adventure Class Ships, Vol 2

        I just spent some time rearranging my computer/ gaming gear/ HAZMAT
room.  I discovered that I have Adventure Class Ships Vols I and II.  Plus a
few other sets from FASA that I am going to have to peer at.  One thing I
noted with some interest is that all the drive dTon useage is not all drive.
The size of the *compartment* is correct, but the drives themselves are
anywhere between 10% and 20% smaller than the compartment.
        Is this a non-standard assumption on FASA's part, or do most folks
doing deckplans make the same concessions?  I wonder, because I am
invariably unable to make a hull fit into its dTonnage if I actually try and
lay it out in a fashion based on my Wet Navy experience with machine rooms
and control spaces.
        Just curious wha'ch'all doin' in this respect.

        Over all, I liked the designs.  I liked the orbital platform the
most, as it is a great bit for any game environment...  small,
single-purpose platform, of which any busy world might have dozens above it.
Heck, it might be an "apartment" building for orbital steevadores, given its
layout.  Some of the other designs were obviously attempts to shoe-horn all
the components into the shape given to the designer by the artist....  The
"Endeavour" class patrol frigate is a good example....

        JMHO.

        --Michel 
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:36:32 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: HG Warfare Question

        Hi, folks!
        Myself and a friend last night ran a scrimmage between a convoy and
a few high-speed raiders last night.  All ships were TL10, and in the
250-300 ton range.
        Does agility not count against any attack *except* meson fire?
Since my TNEC campaign is Max TL11, the only way you can build a meson gun
is with a spinal mount.  All the ships I have got designs for are all high
agility, since I *thought* the last time I did any HG combat agility was a
DM against all attacks.
        However, we were looking at the attack roll modifiers, and the only
weapon that mentioned it was meson guns.  Which radically changes the entire
design philosophy for a low TL fleet...  who cares about agility, pile on
the armor!
        So, to get to the point =), am I missing some errata?  Does the
target's agility affect all attack rolls or just meson gun attacks?  Thanks
for any observations.

        --Michel

        PS:  If anyone cares, I can post the turn-by-turn results;  short
version is that the convoy defeated the raiders.

	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:36:31 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Red Lining

        In the TML PBEM archive, at one point the character's ship (1G)
pulls a phenomenal 4G's (400% capability) for a few moments, and cruises for
a while at 140% capacity.  Now, I've had players trying to shave precious
minutes off of runs, or outrunning somebody, or trying to escape a gravity
well, etc.  All "red lining" situations.
        Has anyone figured out a CT rules set for red lining engines on
starships (or anything else, for that matter)?  I was curious.

        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:32:25 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Off Topic: D&D and versions

>I'm not sure but I think you missed one in there


Actually, everyone so far has been missing one set.

Chainmail gave birth to the LTBs (Little Tan Books), the LTBs gave birth to
the Blue D&D Basic Set, which was made with the dual intent of getting new
players into the game, and codifying the rules a little better for the
upcoming Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. After the release of the AD&D books,
the D&D line was kept due to grumblings by fans and the desire to have a
simpler, introductory system. When the first Red D&D Basic Set came out AD&D
and D&D were completely different product lines. Rules were significantly
different in some ways. Around '83, both the AD&D books and the D&D line
(now with an Expert Set as well) got a complete visual overhaul. The AD&D
books stayed exactly the same on the interior. The D&D books were rearranged
a bit and clarified. In the late 80s, AD&D published a second edition, and
in short order the Basic Set got a new edition, a bigger box, and cardboard
miniatures. Recently, AD&D want into a new printing with art changes, but
the exact same text. D&D may have gotten a new edition as well, but if so I
never saw it.

AD&D has had two distinct editions. D&D has had the LTBs, the Blue Basic,
the Red Basic, and the "boardgame" Basic, and possibly one more, that's 5
editions.

I have every one of the books I speak of, so if anyone needs more info on
any of them, I can fill you in in private email.


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
Looking for other Traveller players in your area?
Looking to run a PBEM game? Check out:
http://www.pil.net/~semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:40:05 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Grump, Grump

        Sorry if any of those last four messages were already seen by the
list-folk.  However, I somehow wound up un-subbed from the list over
Christmas and never saw answers or comments to those.  Or anything else for
that matter.  

        Now I am going to have to go dredge through the archives for the
past two weeks' traffic.  Grump, Grump.

        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:47:19 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat... 

> > From: Rob Prior 
> > I've used Mayday quite successfully to teach vector movement in physics
> > class. The kids have a ball, and a game lasts 5-10 minutes once they get
> > the hang of things. Can you find a copy of Mayday?  (This is essentially
> > the CT system with hexes instead of miniatures.)
> 
> The Mayday rulebook has a place of honour on my desk, between Books 3 and
> 4.  Truly, it is righteous.
> 
> Alan Bradley,
> Follower of the True Faith.

Amen.

And I like my old copy of Snapshot, too, which I was introduced to by my old DM, back in my heathen days, before I joined the One True Faith and shifted my prayers from Wisconson to Bloomington where they *belonged*.  <grin>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:51:35 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: T5's competition

Steven Hudson said:

>I picked up a lot of later
>TSR product second-hand last year, and the amount of space wasted on blank
half-
>columns and lousy artwork was absurd - in some cases the amount of artwork
was
>so excessive that the product would've been compromised even if the surplus
>weren't recycled or bargain rate filler.


It depends on how recent the stuff was. In TSR's "Dark Days" they turned out
some real crap, and began to depend on the "churn" (new players who enter,
buy the hardcovers, shelve them, and go away) to make all of their money.
Since WoTC has taken over, their quality has improved so much it's actually
_astonishing_.

WoTSR has attempted to win back the old school (getting back with Gygax for
one, printing a new Greyhawk line, and reprinting "Tomb of Horrors").
Further, they have had some impressive "maintenance" releases as well. In
this case, by maintenance release, I mean books that really appeal to people
who seriously play AD&D as opposed to the casual consumer. Their 4 volume
Magic Item and Spell Compendiums are amazing. They break every single "new
player" rule in the book, (little art and dense text). However, TSR has the
consumer base to support these types of books.


Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=
Looking for other Traveller players in your area?
Looking to run a PBEM game? Check out:
http://www.pil.net/~semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:41:24 -0500
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Bagpipes in todays modern army

steve daniels wrote:
> 
>
> Well, there may some dispute here.  My academic sources say the
> average suit of chainmail wieghed 60-75 pounds and it was all borne
> on the shoulders.  Whereas plate mail, commonly depicted as very
> encumbering, was actually very good at distributing weight over
> the entire body and was actually fairly light.

Most chain was supported at the shoulders AND the waist.

As a ex-SCAian and armorer I'd like to churp in here. My original set of
full plate circa 1650's designs weighed in a 85 lbs sans helmet. It
wasn't *very* encumbering but heat did become a problem. The hardest
thing about it was breathing in a closed helm.

Later versions, including the suit now packet away became increasingly
light, with the use of (gasp) aluminuim as the primary material (Hey, it
looked as good and was down to 45 lbs for the same coverage!). "Loose"
joints rather than "hinged" articulation made it almost as flexable as a
leather jacket. The weight was distributed over several points, the
shoulders for the breast and back, the hips for the upper legs, while
the lower legs actually rested somewhat on the upper boot.

A note about kilts. They actually were one of the best ways we found to
cover the areas between the cuishes and the breast and back (in
particular the butt!), heavy material was flexable and padded the area
somewhat. The next best was leather straps suspended vertically.


OBTrav:

Plastics and laminates would probably increase armor factor, while
decreasing weight. I've always pictured battle dress as hard shells
attached to some form of flexable body suit of ballistic weave. The
joints "float" over the various areas allowing great flexability, while
the body suit contained coolant channels to prevent over heating (Plate
tends to really trap body heat). One neat additin that came from my sons
jaunt in the Marine Corp. is the "Camel pack" he uses, A bladder carried
ruck sack like in the middle of the back, He clains to fill it with ice
and water and wear it under a field pack on marches, where it cools him,
as well as providing a cool drink as needed.(Wish I had one when I was
still in the SCA!).

Douglas' kilted Marines, IMTU, would wear their kilts in battledress. A
kevlar lined kilt of an appropriate tartan, to cover un armored areas,
since from the bottom of the breast and back to the thighs are an area
the NEEDS to be flexable.
> 
> Which gets me back to Ob. Trav:
> Body armor.  I think the rules in FFS, and even FFS2, are very weak
> on the materials available at higher tech levels.  Although I do
> appreciate the body armor creation rules in FFS1, the flexible
> body armor materials available stops at TL8 (ballistic weave)
> It seems to me (and I should probably just develop something)
> that higher TLs will have better quality flexible armor materials.
> After all, we know have Real World (tm) improved kevlar
> that will stop a .357 Magnum round at pointblank, and not even
> knock a large man back (although braced).

Hum, I still think that impact would be a problem unless the armor was
powered.

> 
> I also have a problem with the -1 Agility for rigid plates on
> any part of the torso.  It seems to me that smaller plate
> inserts wouldn't hamper movement so much.

I agree, a "coat of plates" type of armor is extremely flexable. Of
course ALL flexability depends on how taylored the armor is. Properly
fitted even plate it surprisingly agile, while poorly fitted armor of
any kind is a really dexterity minus.

> 
> --
> Bloo
> Resounding Technology
> Creators of RogerWilco
> http://www.resounding.com/

- -- 
Mike Peters
travelleri@home.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1414
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Traveller-digest      Monday, January 11 1999      Volume 1998 : Number 1415



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: jumpspace recursion 
HG Ship Design - Capital-class Convoy Escort (Type AE)
Re: a few new pics on my site
Re: Red Lining 
Re: Battle Dress= Music Box??
Re: Comments, Please: Extending the UWP: Government
Cambridge, MA != low law level
Re: HG Warfare Question 
Re: escape velocity
Re: Aslan equipment
Re: Bagpipes in todays modern army 
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392
Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392
Re: Man-Kzin war
Re: jumpspace recursion
Re: jumpspace recursion

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 01:59:40 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: jumpspace recursion 

> > > They go to a magical mystical place where impossible wonders are
> reality.  Such as, a balanced budget, honest politicians, lawyers who
> practice for the sake of law,
> > 
> > Hey, now!  Don't lump us lawyers in with politicians.  They're strictly
> junior varisty.
> > Lawyer jokes must be distinct from all others and cannot be causaly
> grouped with others.
> 
> Nor would we want to spend time with lawyers & politicians...  But, it
> seems as if the politician is a sub-branch of the lawyer family tree... 
> *weg*

Lawyers are the larval form of politician.  It's a good thing not many mature to that form, but the rest are still a pain.

It's like one of my characters said once:  "St. Marx right.  Shoot lawyers *FIRST*".

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:36:32 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: HG Ship Design - Capital-class Convoy Escort (Type AE)

        O/___________________________
        O\

SHIP'S DESCRIPTIVE PARAGRAPH

Capital-class Convoy Escort (Type AE)
TL 10.  330 tons. 
        Using a 330-ton, connical hull, the Capital-class Convoy Escort is
designed to protect Frontier convoys against piracy and privateering.
        It is performance-rated at jump-2, 5-G acceleration and 19.8EP
        Fuel tankage for 118 tons supports the power plant and 1 jump-2 plus
1 jump-1.  The ship is fitted with fuel scoops and a purification plant.
        Adjacent to the bridge is a computer Model/2 with a redundant
computer Model/2.
        There are 6 staterooms, no standard low berths and no emergency low
berths and.
        The ship has 3 turrets. There is one triple missile turret organized
as one battery and one triple beam laser turret organized as one battery.
For defense it has a triple sand-caster turret organized as one battery, an
armor belt of 2 and an agility of 5.  There is a 15-ton magazine and are no
nuclear weapons normally carried.
        There are no ship's vehicles.  
        Cargo capacity is 0 tons.
        The hull is fully streamlined.
        There are 0.1 tons of waste space.
        The Capital-class Convoy Escort requires a crew of 9.  A Pilot,
Navigator, 4 Engineers and 3 Gunners are required.  
        The ship costs MCr377.83, including architects fees and takes 56
months to build. The Capital-Class Convoy Escort is routinely found in the
employment of private organizations, and has the distinction of being the
first non-UN commissioned warship design.  Normally, corporations wishing to
protect their Frontier convoys against piracy and privateering own these
ships.  However, some small EscRons owned by private individuals exist,
available for hire by corporations or planetary governments requiring some
extra muscle for a short time.  
        The UN-DSN does not mind the existence of these craft, as they are
rarely encountered on the wrong side of legal considerations.
        First ship launched in 2088, production on-going to present.
Requires 56 weeks to construct.  72 of these ships have been built to date.

        O/___________________________
        O\

SHIP DESIGN WORKSHEET							1.  Date of Preparation		
										2081		
2.  Ship name			3.  Ship Type				4.  Tech Level
UNMS-Moscow			Capital-class Convoy Escort (Type AE)		 10.00
 
5.  Hull		Remarks		Tons		MCr	EP	Crew	Factor
Hull					330		33.00 			3
Configuration		Cone		 3.30 					2
Armor		 			29.70 	 	165.00 			2
Waste Space		 		 0.10 				
	Subtotals	 		29.80 	 	201.30 			

6.  Drives		Remarks		Tons		MCr	EP	Crew	Factor
Jump Drive		 		9.90 	 	39.60 		0	2
Maneuver		 		46.20 	 	19.80 		1	5
Power Plant		 		59.40 	 	178.20 	 19.80 	2	6
Jump Fuel		1jp2	 	66.00 				
Power Plant Fuel		 	19.80 				
Excess Fuel		+1jp1	 	33.00 				
Special Tanks						
Purification		 		13.33 	 	0.06 			
	Subtotals	 247.63 	 237.66 	 19.80 	 4.00 	

7.  Controls		Remarks		Tons		MCr	EP	Crew	Factor
Bridge		 			20.00 	 	1.65 		2	
Aux Bridge						
Computer		3/6	 	2.00 	 	9.00 	 	-   	2
Aux Computer		3/6	 	2.00 	 	9.00 	 	-   	2
	Subtotals	 		24.00 	 	19.65 	 -   	2	

8.  Weaponry	Remarks			Tons		MCr	EP	Crew	Factor
Major Weapon					0	
Bay Repulsor						
Bay Energy						
Bay Particle						
Bay Meson						
Bay Missiles						
Turret Sand	3 Wpns, 1 Turr, 1 Bty	 1.00 	 	0.75 		1	 3.00 
Turret Lasers	3 Wpns, 1 Turr, 1 Bty	 1.00 	 	3.00 	 3.00 	1	 3.00 
Turret Energy						
Turret Particle						
Turret Missiles	3 Wpns, 1 Turr, 1 Bty	 1.00 	 	2.25 		1	 2.00 
Barbette Particle						
	Subtotals	 		 3.00 	 	6.00 	 3.00 	3	

9.  Screens		Remarks		Tons		MCr	EP	Crew	Factor
Meson Screen		 		-   	 	-   	 -   	0	0
Nuclear Damper		 		-   	 	-   	 -   	0	0
Force Field		 		-   	 	-   		0	0
Deflector Screen								0	
	Subtotals	 		-   	 	-   	 -   	0	

10.  Facilities		Remarks		Tons		MCr		Crew	
Small Craft Hangars			 -   			
Big Craft Hangars			 -   			
Launch Facilities						
Launch Tubes			 	 -   				0	
Vehicles						
	Subtotals	 		-   	 	-   		0	

Crew Lists			Officers	Crew			
Command Section			1		1			
Engineering			1		3			
Gunnery				1		2			
Flight Section						
Ship's Troops						
Service Crew						
Passengers						
	Subtotals		3		6			

11.  Quarters				Tons		MCr		Crew	
Single Staterooms	 3 	 	12.00 	 	1.50 		3	
Double Staterooms	 3 	 	12.00 	 	1.50 		6	
Low Berths		 -   	 	-   		0	
Emergency Low		 -   	 	-   		0	
	Subtotals	 		24.00 	 	3.00 		9	

12.  Cargo		Remarks		Tons				
Cargo		Potential : 0.1 tons					
Mail						
Magazine	15 Missiles	 	1.50 				
					 1.50 				

13.  Totals		Remarks		Tons		MCr	EP	Crew	
Hull					29.80	 	201.30 		0	
Drives					247.63	 	237.66 	 19.80 	4	
Controls				24.00	 	19.65 	 -   	2	
Weapons					3.00	 	6.00 	 (3.00)	3	
Screens					0.00	 	-   	 -   	0	
Facilities				0.00	 	-   		0	
Quarters				24.00	 	3.00 			
Cargo					1.50				
	Subtotals			329.93		467.61	16.8	9	
Architect's Fees					4.68			
Discounts						-94.46			Agility
Totals					329.93		377.83	16.8	9	5.1

14.  Notes						
        The Capital-Class Convoy Escort is routinely found in the employment
of private organizations, and has the distinction of being the first non-UN
commisioned warship design.  Normally, these ships are owned by corporations
wishing to protect their Frontier convoys against piracy and privateering.
However, some small EscRons owned by private individuals exist, available
for hire by corporations or planetary governments requiring some extra
muscle for a short time.  The UN-DSN does not mind the existance of these
craft, as they are rarely encountered on the wrong side of legal considerations.
        First ship launched in 2088, production on-going to present.
Requires 56 weeks to construct.  72 of these ships have been built to date.
Lead ship is the UNMS-Moscow.

        O/___________________________
        O\

        As always, comments and suggestions welcome.

        --Michel
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Michel R. Vaillancourt
		misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca

	 Dad, MIS Manager, Reservist, Gamer, Author, SCAdian....
		"Who the heck has the time to have a LIFE?"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
		Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"
		Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:11:35 -0800
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: Re: a few new pics on my site

I have it on good authority that beer keeps head swelling down.  Hang on for
a sec while I go the fridge.......<pop, glug glug>  Aaahhhhhh, that's
better.  Anyway, personal, no-profit, non-commercial use is no prob.  Have
fun with 'em.

Best,
Jesse

P.S.  I think you've won the un-official "Best Comment" comment contest with
that one :)  Thanks!


- -----Original Message-----
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: a few new pics on my site


>Hell on a grav cycle, Jesse!  That's some really cool stuff!  (I hope
>you're not getting a big head from all this praise :-).  BTW, is it okay
>to download and print these for personal use?  I want to make a Traveller
>ref's screen for myself and your pics would be perfect.
>
>Charles.
>
>-----
>"Can anything truly meaningful be said in just a single line? Maybe, maybe
>not."
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:59:04 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Red Lining 

>         In the TML PBEM archive, at one point the character's ship (1G)
> pulls a phenomenal 4G's (400% capability) for a few moments, and cruises for
> a while at 140% capacity.  Now, I've had players trying to shave precious
> minutes off of runs, or outrunning somebody, or trying to escape a gravity
> well, etc.  All "red lining" situations.
>         Has anyone figured out a CT rules set for red lining engines on
> starships (or anything else, for that matter)?  I was curious.

My 'quick fix' for this was, roll 15+ on 2D6 for an M-drive failure.  DM -1 *cumulative* for each combat turn (20 mins) running in redline condition, DM + best engineer's ENG skill level.

For ex, a ship is running for the 5th combat turn in the redline.  That's 100 mins, or almost 2 hours!!!  The 'redline' DM is +15, the best engineer's skill is ENG-3, so it's DM -3, for a total DM of +12.  GM rolls a 2, and the ship keeps on going for one more turn.  Had the GM rolled a 3, the M-drive would have shut down pending repairs.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:46:04 -0500
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Battle Dress= Music Box??

At 04:50 11-1-99 +0100, Volker wrote:
>>ObTrav:  What about adding speakers to a suit of BattleDress & using that
>>to send out taped music when on the march or during a parade?  Or would
>>that be a bad idea?
>I like it.
>Maybe it would play Wagners Ride of the Valkries when charging into battle ;)

I'd never thought of doing this with battledress, but I have done it with
tanks - got the idea from Oddball's tanks in *Kelly's Heroes*.


James

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:15:15 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Comments, Please: Extending the UWP: Government

Just got around to looking at your article.  Nice.  Your system reminds me
of some of the stuff I'm putting together for GT: First In.  Great minds think
alike (or at least go to PoliSci 101 together :-).

One question.  How would you deal with the old Athenian system?  Many
of the executive offices in classical Athens were selected from the citizen
population by random chance.  Kind of like the way juries are selected from
a pool of candidates.

These offices weren't *elected* but they weren't run by direct participation
either.  How would you classify them?

(Incidentally, this system has been fairly rare in democratic practice but it
does appear to have its advantages -- I've been hearing a few reformers
suggest reviving it for certain applications here in the States.  Given the
diversity of cultures and political systems in the Third Imperium, I wouldn't
be surprised to see it pop up from time to time.)

- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, freelance writer, amateur
historian, science fiction fan, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
JFZeigler@aol.com
"Never speak for others. You can get in enough trouble speaking for yourself."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:59:17 -0800
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Cambridge, MA != low law level

Erwin Fritz types:
>Damn. I hate when all the PC want to go to high-tech (Boston with
>M.I.T.) low-law level (U.S.A.) places.

Cambridge, MA is certainly not a low-law level area.
Machetes are banned, double edged knives over 4cm are banned,
ownership of chemical sprays (mace for example) require a 
background check and a police issued license.
All longarm (rifle/shotgun) sales are recorded & tracked.
Pistol permits can be denied at a LEO's whim.
All firearm owners are tracked in the same database the
state uses to track convicted criminals.

Ob-Trav:  In such a setting, players will need streetwise skill
to obtain weapons without such legal hassles.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be 
infringed.  -- http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:19:57 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: HG Warfare Question 

>         Does agility not count against any attack *except* meson fire?
> Since my TNEC campaign is Max TL11, the only way you can build a meson gun
> is with a spinal mount.  All the ships I have got designs for are all high
> agility, since I *thought* the last time I did any HG combat agility was a
> DM against all attacks.

OK, Agility helps determine initiative under HG.  Agility is also used on the 
Missile, Beam Weapon, Meson Weapon, and Particle Accellerator tables.  Agility 
is affected by Pilot skill as well as powerplant output.  The Pilot DM is 
determined by dividing the Pilot skill of the ship's command pilot by 2, 
dropping all fractions, and adding it to the ship's agility.  Agility must be 
at *least* 1 for this to take effect.  I.E., who cares *HOW* good your pilot 
is if your ship's dead in space.

>         However, we were looking at the attack roll modifiers, and the only
> weapon that mentioned it was meson guns.  Which radically changes the entire
> design philosophy for a low TL fleet...  who cares about agility, pile on
> the armor!
>         So, to get to the point =), am I missing some errata?  Does the
> target's agility affect all attack rolls or just meson gun attacks?  Thanks
> for any observations.

Pilot skill is detailed on pg 44, the Missile & Beam table is on pg 45, and 
the Meson & PA info is on pg 47.  Emergency agility is on pg 28.

>         PS:  If anyone cares, I can post the turn-by-turn results;  short
> version is that the convoy defeated the raiders.

That would be interesting to see, especially if the corrected die rolls indicated a different result.  <grin>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:34:24 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: Re: escape velocity

 
> This is the detailed, 'right' way to approach the problem.  Fortunately,
> there's an incredibly useful simplification available.  Take p as the
> body's density, Earth=1; r as its radius or diameter, Earth=1; g as the
> surface gravitational acceleration, Earth=1. 
> 
>   g = pr

or in units of measure:
 
	m	kg    m
	---  =? --- * ---
	s^2	m^3

looks like p*r gives kg/m^2 when we want meters per second^2

Try g=pr for a gas giant:

(jupiter) p=4.18, r=11.19--> g should be 46.78 earth gravities. It is
usually quoted as ~2.5, and that may be at some inner surface (your
math could only provide a value at the listed radius.

> Really.  That's it.  Cool, huh? :)
 
Would be if it worked... I thought Scouts had some listed
relationship between UWP and gravity... hmmm.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:39:27 -0800
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment

Sethkimmel@aol.com types:
[snip]
>Ob Trav: why let only the Aslan have all the fun. Let anyone do-dad up their
>personal effects, like a personal trademark. A good GM can have fun with this.
>(you were recognised by the fancy paintjob on your ship, and by the fancy
>tooled syntho-leather gunbelt you wore dirtside...)

One of the nice touches of T4 was Sylean heavy revolver.  A noble's weapon.
Crafted by custom gunsmiths with detailed decorations.  A suitable holster
and belt are a nice touch.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
      Smith&Wesson -- The Ultimate "Point & Click" User interface.
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:35:26 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Bagpipes in todays modern army 

> OBTrav:
> 
> Plastics and laminates would probably increase armor factor, while
> decreasing weight. I've always pictured battle dress as hard shells
> attached to some form of flexable body suit of ballistic weave. The
> joints "float" over the various areas allowing great flexability, while
> the body suit contained coolant channels to prevent over heating (Plate
> tends to really trap body heat). One neat additin that came from my sons
> jaunt in the Marine Corp. is the "Camel pack" he uses, A bladder carried
> ruck sack like in the middle of the back, He clains to fill it with ice
> and water and wear it under a field pack on marches, where it cools him,
> as well as providing a cool drink as needed.(Wish I had one when I was
> still in the SCA!).

Wasn't there a JTAS article on Battle Dress somewhere?  Or was it TD, or MTJ?  
I remember seeing something like this in my collection someplace, 
unfortunately, it's all packed away right now...

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:55:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392

In mail you write:

>> This one's nice for the impies, if it does sound a bit "evil" to my 20th
>> century ears! ;^)
>
> Heh.  My character in Eris' game once called a Vargr 'grandson of an ape!!', 
> in Vargr.
>
> <grin>

Hmmm. Do Vargr use "dog biscuits"? If they don't, offer one to a Vargr.
That ought to start a fight.

"Here boy! Have a milkbone!"

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:58:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Bagpipes in todays modern army.

In mail you write:

>>Ob. Trav.  Sound as a weapon.  IIRC, there are certain low frequencies that
>>can cause nausea and even strong psychological reactions, i.e, paralyzing
>>fear.
>>Would these be used in a TL 15 Third Imperium?  If only to keep Vargr in
>>line with whistles?  ;-)
>
>
> Aren't the Europeans currently working on something like this for use in
> riot control? I'm not sure where I heard this, but it was a sound "weapon"
> that would make victims sick to the stomach.
>
> The Nazis had some research into the subject, although they never got
> anything workable. Survival Research Labs made sound cannons from the
> research and got sued as a result when they used them at an event in
> California. As it turns out, it wasn't to damaging to people watching in the
> crowd, but people on a nearby highway, in their cars, were deafened (some
> permanently).

The *big* problem with infrasound as a weapon is that unless you are
using reflectors that are more than a wavelength in size, you wind up
with an essentially omni-directional signal. 

And since the wavelength is related to the speed of sound, that gets
*really* impractical. Using 750 mph (1100 feet/sec) as the speed of
sound:

freq	wavelength
- ----	----------
 5 Hz	220 feet
10 Hz	110 feet
15 Hz	 73.3 feet
20 Hz	 55 feet
25 Hz	 44 feet

That covers the entire useful range of infrasound. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:47:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392

In mail you write:

> We normally used the names "Imps" or "Impies" as a derogatory phrase, 

Ah!

	"IMPIES GO HOME!"

According to an ex-biker I used to know, one of the scariest moments in
his life was in a cantina in back country Mexico. *Way* Back country.
The kind of place the Federales visit only in squads, when they visit
at all. He and a couple of friends had stopped in for a drink and a
bite to eat. Then from behind them they heard "Hey gringo...."

What happened after that sounds like a Traveller adventure. Right down
to making their escape under fire!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:33:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Man-Kzin war

In mail you write:

>> In mail you write:
>> 
>> >> How about the Pak?
>> >> 
>> >> 3I vs the Pak? 
>> >
>> > 3I wins it hands down.  Not only does their technology overwhelm the Pak 
>> > Protectors, but also the Protectors are extremely predictable.  As 
> Brennan 
>> > said, there's very little free will in a Protector.  They'll figure out 
> the 
>> > best possible tactic every time and use it.  All you have to do is 
> figure 
>> > out what it'll be and sucker them into it, then clobber them.
>> 
>> Slight problem. You are confusing "lack of free will" with stupidity.
>> They "lack free will" because they are so much smarter than we are that
>> there's usually only one solution for a given problem given a specific
>> set of tools and to *them* it is obvious.
>
> No I'm not.  I'm keeping in mind that Pak starting tech is way low compaired 
> to human tech.  For instance a 'true line' Pak wouldn't know about advanced 
> computers.  Why build a machine that processes information just as good as a 
> Pak can?  This means, no Jump drives for them until they *do* capture some 
> human tech.
>
> Remember, the Pak had only ramscoop ships.  Brennan blew one up by domping a 
> heavy element (boron gas, I think it was) into its scoop field in a 
> semicontained stasis chanber where it fused up into the transuranics and 
> blew 
> out the scoop.  You take out their scoops, you *have* them.  And they're 
> only 
> 4 or 5 G accelleration due to them not having gravitic compensaters.

Try 10 g. A Protector barely *notices* 3 g. As I recall, that's even
mentioned in the book.

>> That means that they are smart enough to *know* when the best tactic is
>> something that mere humans can figure out. 
>
> You're forgetting that humans have advanced computer technology at their 
> disposal.  Feed the info into a TL15 expert system, and it'll give you 
> detailed plans on how to sucker them every time.

But the protectors can *think*. An expert system can't come up with a
solution not embedded in its ruleset. A human (or protector) *can*. Or
at the very least, has an *enormously* larger ruleset.
  
>> Fighting something *that* much smarter than you is not easy. The only
>> way to win is to *continually* be able to make use of informatiuon
>> unknown to the protectors.
>
> Which is where the human's advanced computer tech comes in.

Sorry, but you obviously don't program computers. Computers are *not*
"smart". They are downright *stupid*. They are merely *fast*. They can
only do "simple" operations. But they can do so far faster than a
human. They can't do complex reasoning. Protectors *can*, and can do so
better than humans. 

>> Also, against a foe the size of the third Imperium, you can be sure
>> that the first thing they'll do is grab some isolated ships both for
>> info, and to learn the technology. And there goes your tech advantage. 
>
> *IF* they can.  Remember all those 'piracy is impossible' posts?  Well, they 
> just came home to roost.  <grin>

Ah! But those posts are about a *career* of piracy. The protectors only
need to grab a few ships, and since they are after *info* they can do
so in exactly the sort of systems where piracy works best.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:11:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: jumpspace recursion

In mail you write:

>>> How about this, I adjust the artificial gravity to a microgravity level
>>> around the ship, then its Jump Drive, in theory could work, if you 
> remember
>>> we have removed the variable of gravity from the equation, not the rest of
>>> the variables...
>>
>>It doesn't whack out the mass, though.
>
> In Traveller, ships have used artificial gravity for centuries without
> interfering with jump drives. YTU could use "Jump floating" (switching off
> artificial gravity when initiating jump), but this is not canon.
>
> The notion that the second ship is inside the other ship's "10 diameter
> limit" is also problematic since every ship is obviously inside its own
> diameter, and this ruling would make canon jump drives impossible. IMTU,
> the jump limit is caused by a gravity gradient, not intensity, and things
> like ships do not produce a sufficient gradient at any distance.

Incorrect. It's a matter of "curvature of space". An artificial gravity
field, such as in the ships, has *no* gradient (except at the edges of
the field). That is, the *slope* of the field remains constant. 

The rate at which the slope *changes* is what the drive is sensitive
to. And even a *small* mass can have the required rate of change if you
are close enough. Inside, the *natural* g field changes oddly since the
mass distribution *isn't* uniform. That field is added to the
artificial field, causing changes that people won't notice, but a j
drive might.

You'd need a mass distribution map of the ship (in 3 d) as well as some
messy calculations to determine *how* the curvature changes inside a
ship or even close to it. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:09:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: jumpspace recursion

In mail you write:

>
>>If I was the ref, I'd ask for the ship and character sheets. Then when
>>asked what happened, I'd simply say "The ships are never heard from
>>again, so your *new* characters won't know what happened..."

> I bow to your wisdom. (After all, this still leaves the door open for a 
> later return of the "lost ships and crew" if desired.)

I came close to doing that in a D&D game. One of the players was
about to teleport into a stasis field. :-)

(I'd have handed the sheet back... once enough time had passed. Heck,
 the field was dropped only a few game years later.... :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1415
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, January 12 1999     Volume 1998 : Number 1416



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392
Re: Military Vacations
Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...
Re: Red Lining 
Re: Man-Kzin war 
Re: Red Lining 
Re: Game systems and books as a GUIDELINE
Re: T5's competition (was: In Defense of T4)
RE: Traveller's Last Chance?
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )
Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? ) 
Re: Aslan equipment
Re: FASA Adventure Class Ships
Re: T5, GT and SJG
Re: Aslan equipment 
Re: Comments:  FASA Adventure Class Ships, Vol 2
Sulfuric acid

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:45:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #1392

In mail you write:

> At 06:28 PM 1/9/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Okay, to ObTrav the discussion: What is the proper word for Imperial
>>citizens? Is it 'imperials'? I use that one to refer to the navy, the
>>marines, and the direct _Imperial_ types. Is there a generic word for the
>>dirthuggers of the Imperium? You know, the people who are citizens of
>>specific planets, but not specifically involved in Imperial affairs? Is such
>>a distinction needed?
>
> I prefer to have the vast majority of folk identify with their homeworld.
> Much like a medieval Frenchman wouldn't think of himself as French, but as
> a Parisian.

Or pre-1860s US citizens thinking of themselves as being from their
state, not from the US. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:20:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Military Vacations

In mail you write:

> I have been thinking about a Traveller campaign and started to wonder 
> how to get military characters into an adventure without starting a 
> war.  The problem is how long are military leaves.  I know that in 
> most militaries you build up vacation time (about 2weeks to a month) 
> over a year.  But in Traveller thats hardly enough time to jump back 
> and forth to another system let alone a long trip.

Check out the practices of the British Army between say, 1700 and 1900.
Ditto for the French Army and those of other "colonial" powers. Heck,
Traveller is *based* on the period before telegraphs and steam made
travel and communication so fast.

I get the impression that "leave" tended to get used for *local* R&R,
as there really wasn't the time to go elsewhere. 

However, I also get the impression that NCOs and officers (and maybe
even enlisted) could get "detached duty". This allowed them to wander
around getting into (and out of) trouble without being AWOL. This
tended to be restricted to "lifers" (ie personnel who had signed up for
the full "20 years", as opposed to a single "term") as that way there
was no worry about their term of service running out while they were
detached. 

> I figure most enlisted and NCO's would get the above form of 
> vacation not counting shore leave.  Officers on the other hand may 
> actually get leave of absents for up to a year maybe more if there is 
> no major conflict, with the condition that they are on a recall 
> standing.

I doubt that there'd be a true "leave of absence". Detached duty is
more likely. For example, if an an officer (or sometimes even an NCO)
is going to attend college to gain some skills/training that will make
them more useful, they are "detached" to the college. They are thus
still in the service, and subject to regulations, except as modified by
the orders detaching them. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:10:00 PST
From: "Roger Barr" <rogerbarr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Roleplaying through Starship Combat...

>Greetings, All,
>
>I'm looking for information on how to present starship combat in a 
>more fluid manner.
>

>Any help in this would be appreciated.
>

Jason,
You might not like to hear this,but here goes:
IMTU, I run starship combat so fluid that many referees may cringe. I 
use phrases like, "The enemy vessel is at medium range, and has fired a 
pair of missiles. They are locked and homing in. Who is targeting the 
vessel and who is on missile defense?"
Make the rolls.
"Turret one fires, the beam laser missed."
"Turret two fires, laser strikes one missile, and now the other one is 
closing into short range. Your sensors display has marked the radar lock 
in bright red for your immediate attention due to threat level. You may 
only get one more shot at this one Turrent One;
Will you take it?"
I never bothered to tell the players how long starship combat lasts, 
unless we discuss it. Why drag out this twenty minutes of time unless 
there is a reason to do so? (If you are specifically trying to build 
tension in the players, then drag it out all you want...) Otherwise, I 
know I would simply be glued to the screen waiting for the results of 
the shots anyway.
:)
Remember, Jason, I've been called a Dramatist. I plead guilty.

Roger Barr


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:30:19 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Red Lining 

From: Keven R. Pittsinger 
> >         In the TML PBEM archive, at one point the character's ship (1G)
> > pulls a phenomenal 4G's (400% capability) for a few moments, and
cruises for
> > a while at 140% capacity.  Now, I've had players trying to shave
precious
> > minutes off of runs, or outrunning somebody, or trying to escape a
gravity
> > well, etc.  All "red lining" situations.
> >         Has anyone figured out a CT rules set for red lining engines on
> > starships (or anything else, for that matter)?  I was curious.
> 
> My 'quick fix' for this was, roll 15+ on 2D6 for an M-drive failure.  DM
- -1 *cumulative* for each combat turn (20 mins) running in redline
condition, DM + best engineer's ENG skill level.
> 
> For ex, a ship is running for the 5th combat turn in the redline.  That's
100 mins, or almost 2 hours!!!  The 'redline' DM is +15, the best
engineer's skill is ENG-3, so it's DM -3, for a total DM of +12.  GM rolls
a 2, and the ship keeps on going for one more turn.  Had the GM rolled a 3,
the M-drive would have shut down pending repairs.

>                                                      Science-Fiction
Adventure
>                                                      In Reavers' Deep

Let me guess - only if the engineer is from the Principality of Caledon or
related states.

Of course, on their ships, everyone is called "Scotty"...

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:13:32 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Man-Kzin war 

> >> >> 3I vs the Pak? 
> >> >
> >> > 3I wins it hands down.  Not only does their technology overwhelm the Pak 
> >> > Protectors, but also the Protectors are extremely predictable.  As 
> > Brennan 
> >> > said, there's very little free will in a Protector.  They'll figure out 
> > the 
> >> > best possible tactic every time and use it.  All you have to do is 
> > figure 
> >> > out what it'll be and sucker them into it, then clobber them.
> >> 
> >> Slight problem. You are confusing "lack of free will" with stupidity.
> >> They "lack free will" because they are so much smarter than we are that
> >> there's usually only one solution for a given problem given a specific
> >> set of tools and to *them* it is obvious.
> >
> > No I'm not.  I'm keeping in mind that Pak starting tech is way low compaired 
> > to human tech.  For instance a 'true line' Pak wouldn't know about advanced 
> > computers.  Why build a machine that processes information just as good as a 
> > Pak can?  This means, no Jump drives for them until they *do* capture some 
> > human tech.
> >
> > Remember, the Pak had only ramscoop ships.  Brennan blew one up by domping a 
> > heavy element (boron gas, I think it was) into its scoop field in a 
> > semicontained stasis chanber where it fused up into the transuranics and 
> > blew 
> > out the scoop.  You take out their scoops, you *have* them.  And they're 
> > only 
> > 4 or 5 G accelleration due to them not having gravitic compensaters.
> 
> Try 10 g. A Protector barely *notices* 3 g. As I recall, that's even
> mentioned in the book.

10g *bursts*.  It was mentioned that they can work rather well under 4 to 5 g 
accelleration for long periods of time.  4 to 5g's was their 'standard' cruise 
speed.

> >> That means that they are smart enough to *know* when the best tactic is
> >> something that mere humans can figure out. 
> >
> > You're forgetting that humans have advanced computer technology at their 
> > disposal.  Feed the info into a TL15 expert system, and it'll give you 
> > detailed plans on how to sucker them every time.
> 
> But the protectors can *think*. An expert system can't come up with a
> solution not embedded in its ruleset. A human (or protector) *can*. Or
> at the very least, has an *enormously* larger ruleset.

Maybe current Solomani tech expert systems can't, but they're what, TL8?  3I 
tech is more on the order of TL14 average, with TL15 max (except for the 
occaisional TL16 world).  That's a difference on the order of from the 
beginning of Solomani human history to the present.  Previous canonical 
sources (cf 'Kinunir' Adv 1) indicate that limited artificial intelligence is 
possible at TL15, which punches the hole into that argument.
   
> >> Fighting something *that* much smarter than you is not easy. The only
> >> way to win is to *continually* be able to make use of informatiuon
> >> unknown to the protectors.
> >
> > Which is where the human's advanced computer tech comes in.
> 
> Sorry, but you obviously don't program computers. Computers are *not*
> "smart". They are downright *stupid*. They are merely *fast*. They can
> only do "simple" operations. But they can do so far faster than a
> human. They can't do complex reasoning. Protectors *can*, and can do so
> better than humans. 

Not with present day technology.  But with TL15 tech?

And yes, I *do* program computers.  I'm *VERY* aware of current computer 
software limitations.  I just don't expect them to remain limitations into the 
53rd Century.
 
> >> Also, against a foe the size of the third Imperium, you can be sure
> >> that the first thing they'll do is grab some isolated ships both for
> >> info, and to learn the technology. And there goes your tech advantage. 
> >
> > *IF* they can.  Remember all those 'piracy is impossible' posts?  Well, they 
> > just came home to roost.  <grin>
> 
> Ah! But those posts are about a *career* of piracy. The protectors only
> need to grab a few ships, and since they are after *info* they can do
> so in exactly the sort of systems where piracy works best.

Piracy is piracy.  You can't have it both ways.  <grin>

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:24:20 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Red Lining 

> > My 'quick fix' for this was, roll 15+ on 2D6 for an M-drive failure.  DM
> -1 *cumulative* for each combat turn (20 mins) running in redline
> condition, DM + best engineer's ENG skill level.
> > 
> > For ex, a ship is running for the 5th combat turn in the redline.  That's
> 100 mins, or almost 2 hours!!!  The 'redline' DM is +15, the best
> engineer's skill is ENG-3, so it's DM -3, for a total DM of +12.  GM rolls
> a 2, and the ship keeps on going for one more turn.  Had the GM rolled a 3,
> the M-drive would have shut down pending repairs.
> 
> Let me guess - only if the engineer is from the Principality of Caledon or
> related states.

Been using that rule since '82, when I started reffing.

> Of course, on their ships, everyone is called "Scotty"...

The current engineer in the group's name is Mavron Hale, an ex-Imperial jarhead.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 99 22:33:06 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Game systems and books as a GUIDELINE

I got talked into running another PBEM and spent my spare time
Saturday and Sunday trying to get it ready.  Now I look at my TML
folder and I'm 500+ messages behind! Geeze! ;->

On 01/09/99 at 08:02 PM, Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com> said:

>Rick Elrod wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all...
>> 
>> I'm new to this list.  I never realized until now that any such thing
>> existed.  It's great to read all these posting about my favorite
>> game. 

Welcome Rick.

>> Does anyone think as I do that the books and supplements and rules and
>> materials serve as a GUIDELINE to great role playing?  

Boy! Do you have *that* right! ;->

>> The group I'm in
>> pretty much uses the Megatraveller play system and character generation,
>> and we use all the background history (Spinward Marches, The Dark Times,
>> The New Era) as the backdrop for our adventures.  We don't harp so much
>> on flaws in the game system, as we make workarounds for them.  If
>> something doesn't suit us then we change it, or if something is not
>> complete or missing altogether, then we add it.
 
WELCOME RICK! ;->

>Eris, 

>This guy has potential heretic written all over him! Better get the
>word to him before the Templers reach his door with the (hush) comfy
>chair! ;*>

Hee!  Hee!  Yep, Rick appears to have great potential in the heretic
department. ;->

I'm sure somewhere among the 500 messages I haven't gotten to, the
"4 Horsemen" will also welcome Rick to the "dark side." ;->

Don't worry about the Traveller-Templers, though, they are as
non-canon as I am a heretic.

Eris,
    the Heretic
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:34:40 -0600
From: "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com>
Subject: Re: T5's competition (was: In Defense of T4)

> (hardback, i wouldn't touch the softback w/ the obviously fragile
> binding).

I assume you are being funny when you say this.  I bought a 
hardback when they first came out ... and now the pages are.  All the 
softback copies my players have are still holding up.


- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)

- - Encrypt your messages!
  That way only the government knows what you wrote!

- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!

- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)

- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto

- - Help Stop Forest Fires.  Outlaw Matches.

Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
     http://www.felixcafe.com/

- - - -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 99 22:34:52 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: RE: Traveller's Last Chance?

On 01/10/99 at 01:53 AM,  "MindShift Design" <mindshift@usa.net> said:

>> I think a great marriage of rpgs and computers *is* possible.  You
>> would have a system where several people could participate in a
>> universe presented through a computer, but where the plot and
>> interactions between that universe and the PC's were controlled
>> *interactively* by the GM.  This is where MUD/MUSH/MOO, PBEM, IRC
>> and ICQ games are headed, but haven't gotten to yet...IMO.

>Who says ? <g>

Jason, I think I tossed you a softball! ;->

Your product sounds great. Good luck developing it.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 99 22:41:27 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

On 01/09/99 at 08:44 PM,  Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com> said:

>Personally I don't really care where it is! The idea is enough! 

I agree. 

Doug's GenCon suggestion is a *good* one.  The hard work of
organizing would already be done for us, all we'd have to do is sign
up, book rooms and show up.  Of course, I'm not too enthused about
being in a crowd of 30,000..even (especially?)..30,000 gamers. 

On the subject of why no NATS...

>"In this same line why do the Brits (no insult intended) have BITS?
>Where is the NATS (North American Traveller's Society)?  After all
>it IS "Yanks in Space" ;^> why aren't we yanks doing more to
>promote it?"

Well, I ain't no Yank...I'm a true-grey Southern boy...but I get
your point. ;->

I don't know why we don't have a NATS, let's organize one.  

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 99 22:55:32 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

On 01/10/99 at 10:25 AM,  Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> said:

>> Ayuh.  Now that Deadmonton and Cowtown are out of the running, it's
>> down to a choice between Toledo or Vacationland.  Gee, tough choice, eh?
 
>Not so fast.  There are at least two TMLers who live in Baton Rouge,
>LA.  How 'bout coming down to the Gulf South during the summer? ;-)

Now, that's a trip, I could make!  ;-> And we DO have
air-conditioning down here, so the heat and humidity will only be
awful when you're outside.

It might make more sense to pick a two or three Cons scattered,
regionally, around the US and focus on having people from that
region meet there.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 99 22:50:31 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? )

On 01/10/99 at 09:27 AM,  Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) said:

>Well, I'll probably be in both Vancouver and Calgary this summer.

>How about planning get-togethers in both places?

That's a bit far for me, Rob. I was thinking somewhere in the
American (US) mid-west...which is *still* a "fer piece" for a
Floridian.  ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:29:06 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: TravellerCon (was Re: Traveller's Last Chance? ) 

> On 01/10/99 at 09:27 AM,  Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) said:
> 
> >Well, I'll probably be in both Vancouver and Calgary this summer.
> 
> >How about planning get-togethers in both places?
> 
> That's a bit far for me, Rob. I was thinking somewhere in the
> American (US) mid-west...which is *still* a "fer piece" for a
> Floridian.  ;->

Sounds like Toe-LEE-D'oh! is a viable alternative after all.  Second, of course, to Mecca^H^H^H^H^HBloomington.

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:45:10 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment

Dear Folks -

Keven asked:
>> I sent Keven's comments to my Aslan player
>Um, *which* comments?  I think I've done like 4 or 5 replies on this
thread.
>I kinda wanna know how I'm gonna get filleted by the next wandering
Aslan...

The original thread was something like this:
>>>Even imperialized Aslan would tend to decorate their own weapons with
>>>little aesthetic touches, IMHO.
>> Ob Trav: why let only the Aslan have all the fun.
>One of my *other* PBEM characters, in Nick's game 'Star Viking Legacy',
has a
>highly customised high tech 'skinsuit' that's been worked over for max
[snip]
>FWIW, this guy's name is Gil Hamilton.  <grin>

So, don't worry about being filleted (yet!). As a Niven fan, he was
AGREEING with you about personalised equipment.

You only need to worry when he smiles and you can *see* his teeth!

;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:53:44 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: FASA Adventure Class Ships

Dear Folks -

Michel said:
>The size of the *compartment* is correct, but the drives themselves are
>anywhere between 10% and 20% smaller than the compartment.
>Is this a non-standard assumption on FASA's part, or do most folks
>doing deckplans make the same concessions?

About deck plans, Marc has said that he always takes things and spreads
them around. For example, instead of the bridge being exactly 100 tons, he
would use it for accessways, galleys, etc AS WELL as the "bridge proper". I
guess this extends to the power plant area. Certainly the stateroom tonnage
is spread around as other things, such as the ballroom on the subsidised
liner, circulation space, and other common areas.

Marc's final rule-of-thumb is that, if the plans are within 10-20% of the
specs, they are acceptable.

Of course, this doesn't help the 3D modelers out there who cannot reconcile
the Empress Marava plans (400t worth!) with the given stats of the ship
(200t).
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 99 00:20:58 -0600
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: T5, GT and SJG

On 01/10/99 at 08:01 PM,  Eppu Tuominen <eptitu@utu.fi> said:

>> Despite my optimistic/wishful thinking SJG post, I am zealously
>> in favor of a real Traveller version being out there.  To me,
>> without a Traveller-style randomized character generation system
>> it just ain't Traveller.  (THis may be why I never really got
>> into TNE).

Although, I wouldn't go that far, I do tend to agree.  Randomized,
or at least, semi-random character generation is an important part
of Traveller to me.  Although, I had problems with TNE, it's chargen
method was close enough to *Traveller* for me to use it.  Something
more like MT/CT Advanced would have been nice as an alternative, and
would be for GT too.

>  It's interesting, how much peoples' tastes in game mechanics
>differ. I would personally never referee or play a game, that didn't
>allow the players more or less total control over the generation of
>their characters. (This is why I always felt the T4 character gen.
>system was a 70's backdrop, that had no place in a game published in
>the ninties.)

Different strokes for different folks.  I don't have anything
against the points based chargen in GURPS (other than my tastes),
but would like some random and semi-random options.

>  I'd be interested to know if this preference for CT-style random
>character generation is prevelant on the TML. Are there any others
>like me, who prefer a GURPS / WoD style point based generation?
>Please enlighten me.

I'm sure there are people all along the spectrum on this issue.

Eris
- -- 
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"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:19:04 -0500
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Aslan equipment 

> Dear Folks -
> 
> Keven asked:
> >> I sent Keven's comments to my Aslan player
> >Um, *which* comments?  I think I've done like 4 or 5 replies on this
> thread.
> >I kinda wanna know how I'm gonna get filleted by the next wandering
> Aslan...
> 
> The original thread was something like this:
> >>>Even imperialized Aslan would tend to decorate their own weapons with
> >>>little aesthetic touches, IMHO.
> >> Ob Trav: why let only the Aslan have all the fun.
> >One of my *other* PBEM characters, in Nick's game 'Star Viking Legacy',
> has a
> >highly customised high tech 'skinsuit' that's been worked over for max
> [snip]
> >FWIW, this guy's name is Gil Hamilton.  <grin>
> 
> So, don't worry about being filleted (yet!). As a Niven fan, he was
> AGREEING with you about personalised equipment.

Oh, OK.  So I'm 'safe' for the moment.  <grin>
 
> You only need to worry when he smiles and you can *see* his teeth!

Been there, done that, got the scars, wrote the screenplay...

Keven

tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
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                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

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Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:31:35 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Comments:  FASA Adventure Class Ships, Vol 2

Michel Vaillancourt wrote:

>         I just spent some time rearranging my computer/ gaming gear/ HAZMAT
> room.  I discovered that I have Adventure Class Ships Vols I and II.  Plus a
> few other sets from FASA that I am going to have to peer at.  One thing I
> noted with some interest is that all the drive dTon useage is not all drive.
> The size of the *compartment* is correct, but the drives themselves are
> anywhere between 10% and 20% smaller than the compartment.
>         Is this a non-standard assumption on FASA's part, or do most folks
> doing deckplans make the same concessions?  I wonder, because I am
> invariably unable to make a hull fit into its dTonnage if I actually try and
> lay it out in a fashion based on my Wet Navy experience with machine rooms
> and control spaces.
>         Just curious wha'ch'all doin' in this respect.

My general rule of thumb is equipement takes from 50% to 75% of allocatedvolume,
generaly closer to the 59% mark. The rest is access. FFS1 stated
that certain componants could be treated this way.

Evyn...

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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 02:13:12 -0500
From: Thad Coons <Sapience@compuserve.com>
Subject: Sulfuric acid

Ewan Quibell asked:

>I'm trying to wright up a world, that would survive the long
>night, on it's own, at around TL 5, 6, or 7 (the lower the
>better) with a small population (pop code 5), although it is
>looking more like I will have to change the taint (something I
>don't realy want to do).

>Any suggestions, comments, or oppinions are always welcome.

   Sulfuric acid is the single most important industrial chemical
on earth. Rest assured that whatever chemical industry you have
can use all of it they can extract from the atmosphere and
probably more. It's possible they would have an air liquefying plant:
that's another way to get it. Sulfate minerals might be more abundant 
and  cheaper than we find them.
   Extraction from the atmosphere probably beats mining
and burning sulfur, which is our principal source of sulfuric acid.
About half of what we produce is used in the production of
fertilizers. Probably the second use is to remove the oxide
coating that develops on freshly produced hot steel (pickling).
It and its compounds are used in explosives manufacture (starting
with black powder), in lead-acid batteries, petroleum refining,
and as a reagent and catalyst in all kinds of other chemical
processes. 

> Is Gypsum useful for anything ?

At least in the Western US, it's commonly used as a building
material.  (A primarily gypsum product sold in 4x8 foot sheets, 
trade name SheetRock is used for paneling on interior walls.)
  

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End of Traveller-digest V1998 #1416
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